Unitive purpose vs. abstinence

[timotheos]

I gotta be honest, reading this thread again just gets me depressed. There is so much pain out there. One spouse tries to be faithful to the Church, and gets skewered by the other who doesn’t give a **** about the Church. And while remaining faithful to Church teaching often means staying “married”, you sometimes wonder that if a marriage is dead it is better to separate and be single the rest of your life. I mean, if the priest who “married” my wife and I was doing his job, we probably wouldn’t have gotten married at all. We were just looking for companionship, using birth control, and not following church teaching in anything; I hated my childhood and had NO interest in bringing children into the world, and on top of it, I was an atheist at the time. And now 17 years later we have chronic troubles, and there appears to be no resolution outside of me either praying for her for the remainder of my life, or becoming a nominal Catholic and back to sin (no way, Jose). I sometimes wonder if God is calling me back to the single life again. As hard as this would be, it seems more honest all the way around, than the nonfruitful life we often seem to be living.

 

[mrpathetic]

I gotta be honest, reading this thread again just gets me depressed. There is so much pain out there. One spouse tries to be faithful to the Church, and gets skewered by the other who doesn’t give a **** about the Church. And while remaining faithful to Church teaching often means staying “married”, you sometimes wonder that if a marriage is dead it is better to separate and be single the rest of your life. I mean, if the priest who “married” my wife and I was doing his job, we probably wouldn’t have gotten married at all. We were just looking for companionship, using birth control, and not following church teaching in anything; I hated my childhood and had NO interest in bringing children into the world, and on top of it, I was an atheist at the time. And now 17 years later we have chronic troubles, and there appears to be no resolution outside of me either praying for her for the remainder of my life, or becoming a nominal Catholic and back to sin (no way, Jose). I sometimes wonder if God is calling me back to the single life again. As hard as this would be, it seems more honest all the way around, than the nonfruitful life we often seem to be living.

I think your circumstances are almost identical to mine. And yes, I share your sentiments. I have often been depressed about my lot in life. No, I don’t think I will ever have a true, sacramental marriage. And I seriously doubt that I will ever make love to my wife again. Yes, that thought can be demoralizing, and extremely draining. (Yes, the Holy Spirit could intervene, and change my wife’s disobedient heart. I do not discount that fact. Will it happen? I hope it will, but realize it may not.)

Then I come back to my senses. Marriage is a vocation in life - a specific calling. And like all vocations, it can be tough. Really tough.

As a married man, I am called to be the spiritual shepherd of my household. That is a big responsibility - and not an easy one. If we take vows of marriage, then we agree to take on these responsibilities. That’s a big step, and one that cannot be taken lightly.

Ultimately, I have learned to trust Jesus, and to try to do His will, in fulfilling my vocation. That helps me make it through one day, one week, one year after another.

We all take vows when we marry. We take vow, to remain with our spouses, for better or for worse. So even if we get “the worse”, then we have an obligation to endure it. In today’s secular, hedonistic culture, the idea may be complete foreign. But we are Christians, not pagans. We are living for Christ, and His Kingdom, not for our own benefit.

(p.s., I pray for my wife’s return to Christianity every day. Pray can be the best weapon, in this this spiritual battle, my friend. That is the best advice I can give you, and I think you are on the right track.)

 

[mrpathetic]

p.p.s., I agree with your assessment, that pre-Canaa training in this Church is bad. No, actually, I think it is awful, terrible, abysmal.

None of my training prepared me for the reality of marriage. I was taught the usual dictates - raise your kids in the Church, no infidelity, no IVF, etc. I also felt that the priest was going through the motions. He was a kindly old priest, but he clearly wasn’t putting his full efforts into this aspect of his pastorate.

There were no teachings on the importance of sexuality within the marriage. None. Zippo. There were lots of discussions on how to raise children, and organize the family finances - but not this!

When I think back on it, it was almost like we were being trained for abstinence - for a Josephite marriage.

Hence, I and my wife allowed our sex lives to deteriorate badly, to the point now I can’t remember the last time we had sex. It was sometime around the birth of our last child - and my youngest son is now a junior in high school!

I don’t know if we would have ended up in this circumstance, if we had gone through real, legitimate training, that would have prepared us for the most unique part of marriage - sexuality. Maybe we would have - or maybe not.

Pre-Canaa training in this Church badly needs reformation. If you are engaged in this ministry, and if you are not teaching your couples about the importance of sexuality, then shame on you.

(p.s., I went through this training twenty years ago. If the program has improved in this regard, over the past 2 decades, then I will stand corrected.)

 

[timotheos]

We all take vows when we marry. We take vow, to remain with our spouses, for better or for worse. So even if we get “the worse”, then we have an obligation to endure it. In today’s secular, hedonistic culture, the idea may be complete foreign. But we are Christians, not pagans. We are living for Christ, and His Kingdom, not for our own benefit.

Yes I agree, but what does the Church teach regarding marriage by a justice of the peace? Are those vows binding? I can tell you, my true intentions for marriage were most definitely not in keeping with Church teaching, and more in line with the secular. I married in the Church to keep mom and mom-in-law happy, but had no intention to live a Catholic marriage. I was also pretty unstable at the time. There is little doubt in my mind that an annulment would be a slam dunk, if we divorced.

There are many reasons why I do not want to pursue this option, but the question comes down to this - Does God want me to continue to sacrifice my whole life, even if it means sacrificing it in a way that seems meaningless to me, or does God want me to stop being a coward, and insist upon even minor changes in behavior that will undoubtedly lead to her getting a lawyer (as she has threatened in the past)?

I don’t know how to even begin discerning this.

 

[mrpathetic]

Does God want me to continue to sacrifice my whole life, even if it means sacrificing it in a way that seems meaningless to me, or does God want me to stop being a coward, and insist upon even minor changes in behavior that will undoubtedly lead to her getting a lawyer (as she has threatened in the past)?

I don’t know how to even begin discerning this.

The Lord wants you to start acting like a Christian husband and father. Read Ephesian 5 tonight, if you want tangible examples. The Church is the Lord’s Bride; Christ is the Church’s groom. Christ was willing to sacrifice himself for His Bride, on the cross. But the Church is still HIs bride, and is subject to Him.

Start being in charge of your family. If your wife does not respect you, then do not tolerate or accept this. (The same is true with your children.) You ultimately are responsible to them, as head of household, so act like it. If aspects of their conduct are unacceptable, then do not accept it. Demand that there be changes. If aspects of your home life are non-Christian, then demand that they change. If, for example, your children are not being raised in the faith, then you need to change this, immediately. You must do this in a loving and compassionate way - but you still must do it.

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Look, man, I know the situation is tough. It is especially tough if your spouse is a non-believer; then you cannot use the Biblical/Magisterial teaching to help you, as you try to fix your marriage.

I can empathize with you. Neither you nor I will ever have the perfect, ideal, Brady-Bunch type of family. Sorry to burst your bubble.

But over the past couple of years, I have stopped whining about the situation, and started taking responsibility for it. I started taking a more active role in my marriage. Ultimately, I hope to win back my wife for Christ. And I won’t do that, simply by giving in, or giving up. I don’t know if it will ever happen, but I won’t stop trying.

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Now, on your specific question on marriage by a justifice of the peace: if you are Catholic, and your marriage was not convalidated by the Bishop, then yes, you could obtain an annulment, based upon defect of form. I think you already know this.

But I strongly advise against this. A better alternative would be to a) get your marriage convalidated today, and b) start carrying out your vocation, with faith and courage.

Could you end up in divorce court? I won’t kid you; it is a real possibility. Many women simply refuse to be part of a real, sacramental marriage. (I could list dozens of reasons, but I will digress.) Hate to say it, but this is a chance you’re going to have to take.

 

[Prime]

Yes I agree, but what does the Church teach regarding marriage by a justice of the peace? Are those vows binding? I can tell you, my true intentions for marriage were most definitely not in keeping with Church teaching, and more in line with the secular. I married in the Church to keep mom and mom-in-law happy, but had no intention to live a Catholic marriage. I was also pretty unstable at the time. There is little doubt in my mind that an annulment would be a slam dunk, if we divorced.

There are many reasons why I do not want to pursue this option, but the question comes down to this - Does God want me to continue to sacrifice my whole life, even if it means sacrificing it in a way that seems meaningless to me, or does God want me to stop being a coward, and insist upon even minor changes in behavior that will undoubtedly lead to her getting a lawyer (as she has threatened in the past)?

I don’t know how to even begin discerning this.

As in many things in life, there are no easy answers to your questions, especially on things where our personal preferences are concerned.
For those who see life as a pursuit of personal happiness, it’s all a farce, not even a joke.
For those who accepted life as a search for God’s will until one rests in Him, it’s not that bad.

 

[timotheos]

Ultimately, I hope to win back my wife for Christ. And I won’t do that, simply by giving in, or giving up. I don’t know if it will ever happen, but I won’t stop trying.

… and b) start carrying out your vocation, with faith and courage.

The truth is always much easier to agree with when it’s easy to comply with. But even when it is difficult, it is still true. I’d rather fast for a week or wear a hair shirt for a month than choose to confront, as my authority is always undermined and in the end I always seem to resort to massive anger (great Christian witness, eh?). But you and Prime are right. I am not convinced that marriage was my true vocation but that seems irrelevant now; and perhaps in some instances our vocations choose us rather than vice versa. Kinda forces me to face a few things I’d rather not address.