"Universal" vs. "Ordinary" Magisterium

[Oneofthewomen]

I am quoting this post from a thread in the “Traditional Forum”.

Its really quite simple. None of you BoD( Baptism of Desire ) supporters can make the claim that a Catholic must accept the present day Church’s teaching of BoD as being Church doctrine, whether its taught as explicit, implicit or both. This is because BoD is only being taught by today’s “ordinary magisterium”, but was never taught by the “Universal Magisterium”. The “Universal Magisterium” trumpts the “ordinary magisteium”, so therefore a Catholic is to adhere to what the “Universal Magisterium” has always taught.,… Its that simple.

Oh, and if your going to make the claim that BoD has been the Universal and Constant teaching of the Church, then you will have to provide evidence that the majority of early Church fathers accepted BoD as a truth. However, if it is shown that the majority of early Church Fathers rejected BoD, then that means you have no case.

I am very confused.*** “Ordinary Magisterium”, “Universal Magisterium”…? ***
I have never heard this. I thought that there was only “one” Magisterium, and that the Pope (in this case BXVI) was in charge.

A common theme in this particular thread was to quote the catechisms of the Councils of Trent & Florence, and to*** insist that they “trumped”*** what the Catechism of the Catholic Church published in 1992 said and that anything that the Second Vatican Council may have said is irrelevant because that was an “ecumenical” council, not a “dogmatic” one.

Can someone help me understand this?
What documents is one supposed to listen too?

 

[Bookcat]

Can someone help me understand this?
What documents is one supposed to listen too?

Not to get into the question that they were discussing…

I will note that there is not really a “conflict” between the Ordinary Magisterium and the Universal Ordinary Magisterium…(and yes there is only one “Magisterium of the Church”)

of course Catholics are to profess and live the teachings of the Church…

But here this can help:

ewtn.com/library/Theology/SUMMARY.HTM

keep scrolling down…to see all…

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

The teaching office

888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task “to preach the Gospel of God to all men,” in keeping with the Lord’s command.415 They are “heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers” of the apostolic faith "endowed with the authority of Christ."416

889 In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a “supernatural sense of faith” the People of God, under the guidance of the Church’s living Magisterium, "unfailingly adheres to this faith."417

890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. the exercise of this charism takes several forms:

891 “The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals… the infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,” above all in an Ecumenical Council.418 When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed,"419 and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith."420 This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.421

892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a “definitive manner,” they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent"422 which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I thought that there was only “one” Magisterium, and that the Pope (in this case BXVI) was in charge.

You are correct. However, the “ordinary” teachings of the Magisterium, while always authoritative, may not always be regarded as infallible. A Pope or an Ecumenical Council can teach in a way that is regarded as infallible. This is not the ordinary way the Church teaches, so this is called “extraordinary” (which means “not ordinary”). It’s still the same Magisterium, but a different way of getting the message out.

A common theme in this particular thread was to quote the catechisms of the Councils of Trent & Florence, and to*** insist that they “trumped”*** what the Catechism of the Catholic Church published in 1992

Trent and Florence ordered that catechisms be drawn up and published, but neither Council was involved in the creation of these catechisms. For example, the Catechism of Trent was published three years after the Council ended.

A Catechism is part of the teaching of the Ordinary Magisterium. No Catechism is considered infallible, and one catechism cannot “trump” another.

said and that anything that the Second Vatican Council may have said is irrelevant because that was an “ecumenical” council, not a “dogmatic” one.

I think they might have said “pastoral,” not “ecumenical.” Yes, V2 was Ecumenical (but so were Florence and Trent (and, um, Nicea) - every council that “really counts” has been an Ecumenical Council; there have been 21, including V2).

Not everything that an Ecumenical Council says is doctrinal (and at least one Council - Council of Vienne (the 15th Ecumenical Council) - did not teach *anything *doctrinal). A Council may teach both doctrine (which is infallible) as well as offer pastoral guidance or modify various rules, including Canon Law (none of which are infallible).

V2 was convened as a “pastoral Council,” meaning it’s primary goal was to offer pastoral guidance. However, it was still a full Ecumenical Council (just like Trent), and nothing prevented the Council Fathers from promulgating dogmatic teaching. And, indeed, although Vatican II did not promulgate any new doctrine, it did infallibly add to the Deposit of Faith by developing and clarifying existing doctrine (such as the teaching on infallibility itself).

Things seem to be somewhat irregular over there in the Traditional Forum.