Unmarried cousin has children - what to do?

[kantus12]

Hi all,

I’ve got a bit of a doozy here. My cousin is living with a man she isn’t married to, and just had her second child with him. They’re having their second, ten-week old child christened tomorrow, and having just now learned that they weren’t actually married I’m unsure of what to do. I mentioned it to my mother and she reacted very badly to my question, repeating “it’s none of our business” like a mantra and actually said that she’d “never speak to me again” if I dared to bring it up - and she was deadly serious when she said that, so I believe her. I won’t, of course (I certainly don’t want to do that to her), but how should I feel about this? I’m not sure. They seem to want to get married, and will probably do so later, but…

I’m sorry, I’m just not used to this sheer level of hostility. My mother is a very kind and loving woman, and seeing such shock and outrage from her is something I’m not used to. Any advice?

 

[Della]

Is the christening being done by a Catholic priest? Does he know they aren’t married? If not, he should be told.

As for your mother’s attitude, it’s all to common these days. Everyone wants to be “nice” instead of doing/saying anything that might prick anyone’s conscience. Your mother has no more control over what your cousin does than you do, so I don’t understand why she should get so defensive over your question.

Anyway, if your cousin is a Catholic you have the right and duty to lovingly remind her that she should be married. If she isn’t a Catholic and her minister has baptized her children anyway, there is nothing you can do about it. I wouldn’t talk to you mother about it anymore since she isn’t open to discussing it. All you can really do is pray for your cousin, her boyfriend and their children and for you mom.

 

[Joe_5859]

Staying out of advising others on whether or not to get married is generally sound advice.

In an ideal world, everyone would commit to each other in marriage till death and then have children. But this does not mean that marriage is the “solution” for all unmarried couples who have children with each other. Sometimes it helps. Sometimes it makes things worse. And it is presumptuous for us to assume we know which category the couple in question will fall in.

Now, if this cousin were your best friend and your relationship was such that you could see a large part of the picture, then perhaps you could say something to her. And because of your closeness, your (name removed by moderator)ut might even be taken to heart. Even then, you would have to be very careful as to how you go about it.

I can understand your mom wanting to stay out of it, though her reaction of threatening to never speak to you again seems a bit over the top. Perhaps she was being a bit hyperbolic.

“Admonishing the sinner” is a work of mercy, but this does not mean that we go around pointing out every person’s every foible in a spirit of judgment and finger-wagging. The Old Catholic Encyclopedia gives the circumstances that must be present for making fraternal correction obligatory. And the article even admits that these circumstances seldom occur together for those who are not in some official pastoral role.

 

[kantus12]

Thanks guys,

She is, at least nominally, a Catholic, and it is (I assume) being done by a Catholic priest). Thanks again.

 

[thewanderer]

Is the christening being done by a Catholic priest? Does he know they aren’t married? If not, he should be told.

I’m not entirely sure why this would be an issue… There is nothing wrong with unmarried Catholics getting their children baptized.

Staying out of advising others on whether or not to get married is generally sound advice.

In an ideal world, everyone would commit to each other in marriage till death and then have children. But this does not mean that marriage is the “solution” for all unmarried couples who have children with each other. Sometimes it helps. Sometimes it makes things worse. And it is presumptuous for us to assume we know which category the couple in question will fall in.

Now, if this cousin were your best friend and your relationship was such that you could see a large part of the picture, then perhaps you could say something to her. And because of your closeness, your (name removed by moderator)ut might even be taken to heart. Even then, you would have to be very careful as to how you go about it.

I can understand your mom wanting to stay out of it, though her reaction of threatening to never speak to you again seems a bit over the top. Perhaps she was being a bit hyperbolic.

“Admonishing the sinner” is a work of mercy, but this does not mean that we go around pointing out every person’s every foible in a spirit of judgment and finger-wagging. The Old Catholic Encyclopedia gives the circumstances that must be present for making fraternal correction obligatory. And the article even admits that these circumstances seldom occur together for those who are not in some official pastoral role.

 

[bilop]

I’m not entirely sure why this would be an issue… There is nothing wrong with unmarried Catholics getting their children baptized.

Well, the priest would need to be satisfied there was a well founded hope they would raise the child Catholic. Their situation certainly casts doubt on that.

Also, most priests I know would use the baptism as an opportunity to get the couple to marry.

God Bless

 

[bsroufek]

Regarding your Mom, Jesus says in Matt 10:37, “He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me isn’t worthy of me.” So, don’t let your Mother get you on the wrong track, regardless of her threats.

Regarding your cousin, St. Paul teaches us to say something once or twice, then leave it alone if they don’t listen.

 

[thewanderer]

Well, the priest would need to be satisfied there was a well founded hope they would raise the child Catholic. Their situation certainly casts doubt on that.

Also, most priests I know would use the baptism as an opportunity to get the couple to marry.

God Bless

Ah, I see what your getting at now. Even still, I would not say it is the OP’s place to get involved. It is the priest’s responsibility to determine whether or not such a well-founded hope exists, not the OP’s. I think it is unlikely he will change his method of determining this just because a stranger comes up to him and tells him this couple is unmarried.

 

[Goose70]

Staying out of advising others on whether or not to get married is generally sound advice.

In an ideal world, everyone would commit to each other in marriage till death and then have children. But this does not mean that marriage is the “solution” for all unmarried couples who have children with each other. Sometimes it helps. Sometimes it makes things worse. And it is presumptuous for us to assume we know which category the couple in question will fall in.

Now, if this cousin were your best friend and your relationship was such that you could see a large part of the picture, then perhaps you could say something to her. And because of your closeness, your (name removed by moderator)ut might even be taken to heart. Even then, you would have to be very careful as to how you go about it.

I can understand your mom wanting to stay out of it, though her reaction of threatening to never speak to you again seems a bit over the top. Perhaps she was being a bit hyperbolic.

“Admonishing the sinner” is a work of mercy, but this does not mean that we go around pointing out every person’s every foible in a spirit of judgment and finger-wagging. The Old Catholic Encyclopedia gives the circumstances that must be present for making fraternal correction obligatory. And the article even admits that these circumstances seldom occur together for those who are not in some official pastoral role.

Great advice, and well said.

 

[revert_jen]

Ah, I see what your getting at now. Even still, I would not say it is the OP’s place to get involved. It is the priest’s responsibility to determine whether or not such a well-founded hope exists, not the OP’s. I think it is unlikely he will change his method of determining this just because a stranger comes up to him and tells him this couple is unmarried.

Possibly, but if this is the couple’s second child, and the OP has just found out that they aren’t married, it may really be a secret and maybe the priest didn’t think to ask. It can’t hurt to mention it to the priest, and then the priest can do what he thinks is best (which may be nothing, but that’s his decision).

The only other thing, and this is the most important thing, the OP can do is to pray for them that God will lead them in the right path.

–Jen

 

[Jon_S_1]

Hi all,

I’ve got a bit of a doozy here. My cousin is living with a man she isn’t married to, and just had her second child with him. They’re having their second, ten-week old child christened tomorrow, and having just now learned that they weren’t actually married I’m unsure of what to do. I mentioned it to my mother and she reacted very badly to my question, repeating “it’s none of our business” like a mantra and actually said that she’d “never speak to me again” if I dared to bring it up - and she was deadly serious when she said that, so I believe her. I won’t, of course (I certainly don’t want to do that to her), but how should I feel about this? I’m not sure. They seem to want to get married, and will probably do so later, but…

I’m sorry, I’m just not used to this sheer level of hostility. My mother is a very kind and loving woman, and seeing such shock and outrage from her is something I’m not used to. Any advice?

This is about the baptism of an innocent child. Keep it about that and be joyful!

 

[Jon_S_1]

Possibly, but if this is the couple’s second child, and the OP has just found out that they aren’t married, it may really be a secret and maybe the priest didn’t think to ask. It can’t hurt to mention it to the priest, and then the priest can do what he thinks is best (which may be nothing, but that’s his decision).

The only other thing, and this is the most important thing, the OP can do is to pray for them that God will lead them in the right path.

–Jen

I very much disagree with this.

Let’s say you commit a mortal sin. Let’s say lying to someone. You go and confess and talk to the priest. A few weeks later “Mrs Kravitz” with her nose always in everyone’s business goes and tells the priest she heard you were a liar and she wanted the priest to know so he could deny you communion.

How would you feel?

Would there be any benefit?

She was just trying to make sure the priest knew about your lies.

 

[Della]

I very much disagree with this.

Let’s say you commit a mortal sin. Let’s say lying to someone. You go and confess and talk to the priest. A few weeks later “Mrs Kravitz” with her nose always in everyone’s business goes and tells the priest she heard you were a liar and she wanted the priest to know so he could deny you communion.

How would you feel?

Would there be any benefit?

She was just trying to make sure the priest knew about your lies.

No one has suggested anything like that. But, if the priest doesn’t know that this couple presenting their 2nd child for baptism isn’t married, he should be informed. It might determine what he does about it, as he sees fit.

And this couple may not even know that it is against Church teachings to be living together unmarried. A lot of young people have no clue they are sinning if they have sex outside marriage these days because no one dared to tell them that. All they’ve been taught is love, love, love. Well, love is fine, of course, but there’s more to it than that, and besides the definition of love isn’t “do whatever you want” it’s striving to do what is right and good for the other person. They may simply be uninformed, and the priest may not know the full situation. It would be best if the couple tells him, of course, but if they don’t know it’s wrong, why would they?

 

[Jon_S_1]

No one has suggested anything like that. But, if the priest doesn’t know that this couple presenting their 2nd child for baptism isn’t married, he should be informed. It might determine what he does about it, as he sees fit.

And this couple may not even know that it is against Church teachings to be living together unmarried. A lot of young people have no clue they are sinning if they have sex outside marriage these days because no one dared to tell them that. All they’ve been taught is love, love, love. Well, love is fine, of course, but there’s more to it than that, and besides the definition of love isn’t “do whatever you want” it’s striving to do what is right and good for the other person. They may simply be uninformed, and the priest may not know the full situation. It would be best if the couple tells him, of course, but if they don’t know it’s wrong, why would they?

How is this anyone’s responsibility but the priests and the couples???

You may as well say the priest is incapable of asking appropriate questions to investigate a couple is prepared for baptism.

Either that or your cousin is a liar.

Either assumption should not be made.

 

[kantus12]

To clear things up for everyone - no, I don’t believe their state of affairs was a secret, I’m just a very unobservant and uninquisitive person. Also, it wasn’t exactly broadcast either.

 

[VanSensei]

As the product of unmarried people who was baptized eventually, I say you should leave them alone.

 

[mommy_k]

The couple had to attend a baptism meeting or class. Perhaps they already told the priest. I also agree that this should be about the innocent baby. To deny or delay a baby’s baptism based on the parents sins is just wrong. I would not want to be the person who tries to derail this.

Pehaps this is why your mom is upset.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Depending on the diocesan requirements for pre-Baptism education, the parents may well be quite aware that they must raise their children in the Church.

I teach Baptism classes at my church, and one of the things we emphasize in the very first class is that Baptism isn’t just a ceremony to make the parents’ moms happy, and it’s not just an excuse for a party, either. By having this child baptized, we emphasize, the parents and godparents are making a commitment to raise this child in the faith, and to model the faith for the child. We do point out that the parents’ marriage situation doesn’t have to be regularized for the child to be baptized, but we do ask them to consider having it regularized or at least discussing that with a priest or deacon at the church. We make that part as low-stress as possible, and announce it with a lot of other announcements so that no couple can possibly feel singled out. To facilitate that, we don’t even know the marriage situations of the couples we’re telling this to until after the class is over! Of course, we explain how to get in contact with the priests and deacons and offer to give anyone who asks after the class contact information for them. In short, we make it plain that a) your child will be baptized even if your marriage situation isn’t ideal, but that b) regularizing your marriage situation will bring all kinds of good fruits, both practical and spiritual, to the raising of your child in the Catholic faith.

Naturally, some couples will blow some of this off. Others, however, will ask about getting married, or getting their current outside-the-church marriages straightened out, or going to RCIA, or getting confirmed, etc. Baptism is often a door-opener to bring entire families to the faith…probably one of the reasons I love teaching these classes!