Upon "Non-denominationalism"

[Izdaari]

What do you believe about salvation? Who do you believe gets saved and who do you think doesn’t get saved?

The Father is judge on that, and Jesus is the designated intercessor. It’s not my place to judge anyone else’s salvation.

But we do have Jesus’ words that in order to be saved we must be born again, of water and of the Holy Spirit. I don’t think that necessarily means American evangelical-style born again, nor does it necessarily involve Catholic sacraments.

 

[CWBetts]

Exactly so! I probably do have enough agreement with the Catholic Church to be a “Cafeteria Catholic”… but that doesn’t seem right. If I don’t think the Catholic Church is right in all things, even though it claims to be, I don’t think I agree enough to join. The core issue is I don’t agree on its authority.

If you don’t agree on its authority, perhaps the best course of action is to see where the Church says she gets her authority and go from there. I honestly belive that authority is the crux of the issue in most cases.

 

[Izdaari]

Something else occurred to me. Isn’t somewhat antithetical to the Christian faith to fiand tha faith that matches your beliefs, istead of conforming yourself to the faith?

The difference may be mere semantics. I try to find the faith that I believe is the truth, God’s truth. Saying that a church matches my beliefs is another way of saying they agree with what I believe to be the truth. If I believe a church has the truth, I will gladly conform to it, even if it means admitting I was wrong on some things.

 

[Izdaari]

If you don’t agree on its authority, perhaps the best course of action is to see where the Church says she gets her authority and go from there. I honestly belive that authority is the crux of the issue in most cases.

Agreed. It does all hinge on that. Which means at the present time, unconvinced of that, I cannot be Catholic. But we shall see. I don’t think it likely I’ll change my view, but I follow the truth, wherever it leads…

 

[CWBetts]

Agreed. It does all hinge on that. Which means at the present time, unconvinced of that, I cannot be Catholic. But we shall see. I don’t think it likely I’ll change my view, but I follow the truth, wherever it leads…

I do suggest you look at documents from the Church. I also recommend St. Ignatius of Antioch.

 

[Rightlydivide]

It has come to my attention in the past 5 years or so that an abundance of our youth has branched away from the Catholic church to join a “non-denominational” or what I like to call, power-point church. Am I wrong when someone considers themselves “non-denominational” that they are indeed giving themselves a “denomination”? I would love to hear all the comments to this regard.

God Bless.

Depends on how the word is used. Language is fluid as are definitions in many cases as they evolve. If they are a denomination, that would indicate either some form of collaboration in practice or historically based. If denomination means a distinct group with a certain set of beliefs, I do not think that people who self-identify as such would probably agree. Non-denominational churches can be charismatic or opposed to that. They can ordain women or be very opposed to it.
If you are asking if they are giving themselves some form of identity seperate from other Christians, that is true in the sense they eschew traditional denominations.

 

[Nicea325]

Exactly so! I probably do have enough agreement with the Catholic Church to be a “Cafeteria Catholic”… but that doesn’t seem right. If I don’t think the Catholic Church is right in all things, even though it claims to be, I don’t think I agree enough to join. The core issue is I don’t agree on its authority.

The core issue is I don’t agree on its authority

No offense,precisely why there exist thousands upon thousands of different churches,sects,etc. Authority is always the core matter. What was Lucifer’s issue with God? AUTHORITY and OBEDIENCE! As to WHO has authority is THE issue and the Bible-Alone has been shown and proven it cannot be the FINAL authority.

 

[Nicea325]

Depends on how the word is used. Language is fluid as are definitions in many cases as they evolve. If they are a denomination, that would indicate either some form of collaboration in practice or historically based. If denomination means a distinct group with a certain set of beliefs, I do not think that people who self-identify as such would probably agree. Non-denominational churches can be charismatic or opposed to that. They can ordain women or be very opposed to it.
If you are asking if they are giving themselves some form of identity seperate from other Christians, that is true in the sense they eschew traditional denominations.

**Official Fundamentalist Ambassador to CAF **

Hey…the above title…that is cool,I can give credit were credit is due.

 

[Tietjen]

The difference may be mere semantics. I try to find the faith that I believe is the truth, God’s truth.

That’s what Luther did too. I mean no disrespect when I say this; but rather Luther “believed” he was trying to follow “God’s Truth” too. The reality is that he confused HIS beliefs about what Truth is and assumed that they were in union with what God considers Truth to be. When you say, “I try to find the faith that I believe is the truth…” I am left to wonder how one can do that objectively. For example, if I believe that abortion is not murder, how am I going to ever recognize the Truth that it is murder without outside help? You can’t find “God’s Truth” based on “faith that I believe” because you and I are flawed. We are not the deciding factor in proclaiming what is and is not Truth. If a mentally challenged man were to believe that gravity doesn’t apply to him, would he jump off a mountain and fall upwards? Truth exists apart from our personal beliefs. It is not changeable, and not relative. So how then can we even hope to recognize it when we see it? Based on our personal experiences, our upbringing, and our opinions? That logic did not keep Protestantism from branching out into (what some claim is) 33,000 different denominations. Each denomination believes in “God’s Truth” and believes that they are living within God’s Truth. If that were actually the case, why are there so many differences between the denominations? There are only two possible answers to that question, either God is enjoying a massive joke that He is playing on millions of people who love Him OR, millions of people are wrong to think that they can recognize for themselves what God’s Truth actually is. My question to you is how are you different? How are you not going to make the same mistake that millions of others have made and are making today? How are you going to be able to recognize God’s Truth" when and if you see it?

In 1 Tim 3:15 we find that the Church is the pillar of Truth. Which Church??? The Lutheran Church? No, couldn’t be them, the Lutheran Church didn’t exist before 1517 so how could it be that Church which is spoken of in Timothy? Perhaps the Anglican Church? Nope, 1534. Maybe then the ancient Orthodox Church? Nah… founded in 1054. The AOG Church is way too young having begun in 1914 so I’m quite sure that it is not the Church talked about in Timothy. So, what Church can it possibly be that has existed prior to the New Testament being written? What Church are we told is the pillar of Truth and intended to be used by Christians as an anchor to help us fight against the tide of cultures and societies throughout time itself? There is only one possibility. The last time I checked the gospels I did not find the Christ proclaiming that the Church He was going to establish (the one that not even the gates of Hell could prevail against) would be denied to believers for 1,500 years (until the reformation). He started that Church and made Peter His vicar. That Church has existed, just as the Christ promised us it would, throughout the ages. That Church is Catholic. That Church is the pillar talked about in 1 Timothy. That Church is where we turn to in order to find God’s Truth because we have been given this Church by the Christ Himself and can be assured that we will not be pointed in the wrong direction.

 

[Tietjen]

Exactly so! I probably do have enough agreement with the Catholic Church to be a “Cafeteria Catholic”… but that doesn’t seem right. If I don’t think the Catholic Church is right in all things, even though it claims to be, I don’t think I agree enough to join. The core issue is I don’t agree on its authority.

I appreciate your honesty. What is it about Church authority do not you agree with? Do you agree that Jesus gave the power to bind and loose to the Church through the Apostles? If so, do you believe that He had the authority to do so? Do you believe that Jesus gave the power to forgive sins to the Church through the Apostles? If so, do you believe that He had the authority to do so? What is it exactly that prevents you from believing that the Church, founded by the Christ, has authority? If, as the gospels indicate, the Holy Spirit guides the Church, why is it that you resist or resent that the Church can define dogma, forgive sins, bind and loose? If God is at the helm, why do you doubt the course? Do you resist all authority or just Church authority? How is it that you can accept the authority of a man or woman who wears a robe and bangs a gavel and proclaims a marriage joined by God to be at an end (thus giving that person authority over God) but you cannot accept that God can pass His authority on to His Church?

 

[loneviking]

I have to dissent from the view that ‘non-denom’ is a denomination. A denomination has a specific set of beliefs that you can get your arms around and that all of the congregations in that denomination are expected to follow.

With the non-denoms, you have no idea what you are dealing with! I’ve seen non-denoms with Baptist roots; Pentecostal non-denoms; Evangelical non-denoms; Emergent church non denoms.etc. All had different beliefs and practices.

I would say that non-denom. is more of a mindset. The mindset is that the focus is on the local congregation and not on supporting the superstructure of denomination. Often the teaching pastor is a big draw—someone like Rick Warren of Saddleback or Joel Osteen. Honestly though, you would have to spend some time at the church or know from what background the church came from to know what they teach.

 

[CWBetts]

I have to dissent from the view that ‘non-denom’ is a denomination. A denomination has a specific set of beliefs that you can get your arms around and that all of the congregations in that denomination are expected to follow.

With the non-denoms, you have no idea what you are dealing with! I’ve seen non-denoms with Baptist roots; Pentecostal non-denoms; Evangelical non-denoms; Emergent church non denoms.etc. All had different beliefs and practices.

I would say that non-denom. is more of a mindset. The mindset is that the focus is on the local congregation and not on supporting the superstructure of denomination. Often the teaching pastor is a big draw—someone like Rick Warren of Saddleback or Joel Osteen. Honestly though, you would have to spend some time at the church or know from what background the church came from to know what they teach.

I agree that they are not a unified denomination, but some also deny that they are Protestant, when their theology tends to be a strange amalgamation of Calvin and Luther, with exact proportions dependent on the opinions of the pastor.

 

[Corki]

According to my Church History textbook, the non-denominational churches came out of the Baptist and Methodist traditions during the period called the “Great Awakening” starting in 1801. “The fervor it stimulated led to the wholesale exodus of Protestants from European-founded Churches and into newly forming, independant Baptist and Methodist denominations. These independent groups were self-governing and not tied to any formal governing body. This was a peculiarly American approach to religion. It was the origin of the ‘non-denominational’ sects that are still popular today”

In my “neck of the woods” most of the non-denominational Churches are Baptist in profession but not tied to any of the larger Baptist conventions. They even use the term “Baptist” in thier name as in “Name of Town Baptist Church - a nondenominational Church”. It is somewhat confusing to an outsider.

 

[sedonaman]

I have to dissent from the view that ‘non-denom’ is a denomination. A denomination has a specific set of beliefs that you can get your arms around and that all of the congregations in that denomination are expected to follow. …

Think of it like the way atheism has the same legal status and rights of a religion. Atheists don’t believe in God, but they have some core beliefs atheists.org/about and have religious freedom. A non-denominational church might, for example, reject organized religion. That would be a belief you could “get your arms around” which would make them a denomination. IOW, their denomination is one that rejects denomination.

 

[loneviking]

Think of it like the way atheism has the same legal status and rights of a religion. Atheists don’t believe in God, but they have some core beliefs atheists.org/about and have religious freedom. A non-denominational church might, for example, reject organized religion. That would be a belief you could “get your arms around” which would make them a denomination. IOW, their denomination is one that rejects denomination.

And that would be about as far as you could go for a summary of beliefs!

 

[scriabin]

Lincoln once asked his cabinet, “If you call a tail a leg, how many legs would a cow have?”

“Five,” they answered.

Lincoln corrected, “No, just four. Because it doesn’t matter what you ***call ***a tail, it’s still a tail.”

These denominations can ***call ***themselves anything they want, they’re still a denomination: a group seperated from the body by region, name, theology, practice, and by—choice.

 

[BrianH]

But the term denomination usually denotes a connection with another group of churches…that does not have to be the case although it can. So no I do not think they are

 

[scriabin]

The term non-denominational typically refers to a free, no strings attached, independent church.

Either way, whether independent of others or attached to a group of like minded churches–

these denominations can call themselves anything they want, they’re still a denomination: **a group seperated from the universal body of Christ, the Catholic Church **by region, name, theology, practice, and by—choice.