Upset :(

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Okay…I am really upset, but I’m going to try to make this clear.

DH and I are in RCIA. Surprisingly, we’re fine with almost all of the usual Protestant snags…except the NFP and Theology of the Body stuff. It’s become a real issue, and now I don’t even know what we’re going to do.

I have done a crash course in the theology behind NFP. I asked some questions over in Parenting. I’ve been reading like crazy about Pope John Paul II’s teachings on it, and the Catholic views. And, although I still think it’s splitting hairs, I’m willing to obey.

HOWEVER, then came the whole what-is-okay-in-marriage (as far as sex goes). Now, my Protestant understanding was (a) the Scriptures are fairly silent on this (what is “permitted” in the marriage bed), (2) Song of Solomon is pretty graphic, if you know what it’s saying, and (3) in marriage there is freedom.

I think many of the Church’s teachings on sexuality are bordering on legalistic. I know, I know…obey, don’t question.

My question is - can I, in good conscience, join the Church if I seriously disagree with a major bunch of teachings? And am I now going to go to hell because I’m no longer “ignorantly blissful”?
 
RHC said:
Okay…I am really upset, but I’m going to try to make this clear.

DH and I are in RCIA. Surprisingly, we’re fine with almost all of the usual Protestant snags…except the NFP and Theology of the Body stuff. It’s become a real issue, and now I don’t even know what we’re going to do.

I have done a crash course in the theology behind NFP. I asked some questions over in Parenting. I’ve been reading like crazy about Pope John Paul II’s teachings on it, and the Catholic views. And, although I still think it’s splitting hairs, I’m willing to obey.

HOWEVER, then came the whole what-is-okay-in-marriage (as far as sex goes). Now, my Protestant understanding was (a) the Scriptures are fairly silent on this (what is “permitted” in the marriage bed), (2) Song of Solomon is pretty graphic, if you know what it’s saying, and (3) in marriage there is freedom.

I think many of the Church’s teachings on sexuality are bordering on legalistic. I know, I know…obey, don’t question.

My question is - can I, in good conscience, join the Church if I seriously disagree with a major bunch of teachings? And am I now going to go to hell because I’m no longer “ignorantly blissful”?
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The Church calls you to deepen your understanding of the Faith, not to be silent and obey. In a way, you are called to ‘challenge’ the teachings of the Church: Not in disobedience or impieity but in the search for the truth. And in seeking the truth, you will surly find it, and you will better understand the teachings of the Church. And if you wish to find the truth, you must study and pray, open your heart to the Lord and completely trust in Him.

Now, as far as sex goes, there is much you can do as foreplay, such as oral, bdsm, etc. Some practices, unless I’m mistaken, are not allowed, like anal and anal-oral. It would be a good idea to talk to a priest about marital relations, and it would be a good idea to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, specifically the sections dealing with the sixth commandment and the sacrament of matrimony.
 
RHC said:
Okay…I am really upset, but I’m going to try to make this clear.

DH and I are in RCIA. Surprisingly, we’re fine with almost all of the usual Protestant snags…except the NFP and Theology of the Body stuff. It’s become a real issue, and now I don’t even know what we’re going to do.

I have done a crash course in the theology behind NFP. I asked some questions over in Parenting. I’ve been reading like crazy about Pope John Paul II’s teachings on it, and the Catholic views. And, although I still think it’s splitting hairs, I’m willing to obey.

HOWEVER, then came the whole what-is-okay-in-marriage (as far as sex goes). Now, my Protestant understanding was (a) the Scriptures are fairly silent on this (what is “permitted” in the marriage bed), (2) Song of Solomon is pretty graphic, if you know what it’s saying, and (3) in marriage there is freedom.

I think many of the Church’s teachings on sexuality are bordering on legalistic. I know, I know…obey, don’t question.

My question is - can I, in good conscience, join the Church if I seriously disagree with a major bunch of teachings? And am I now going to go to hell because I’m no longer “ignorantly blissful”?
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No and maybe not.

I believe the whole basis of the Churches teaching on sexuality is that it is a gift from God, to be used in a fitting manner because it is a gift from God and must conform to God’s law. (natural, moral, spiritual)
 
RHC said:
I think many of the Church’s teachings on sexuality are bordering on legalistic. I know, I know…obey, don’t question.

My question is - can I, in good conscience, join the Church if I seriously disagree with a major bunch of teachings? And am I now going to go to hell because I’m no longer “ignorantly blissful”?
Click to expand...
The way understanding is increased is through questioning. When our personal views on some topic of morality do not align with Church teaching we have to put out some effort to bring them into harmony.

It is a mortal sin to violate one’s conscience. The only reason to belong to any religion is you believe its doctrines are true. If you join a religion when you do not believe in its teachings that would make you a hypocrit.

If you seriously disagree with a major bunch of teachings you should not become Catholic, or even think about it seriously. You would be a bad Catholic and really Catholic in name only. Why would you even want to be Catholic if you have serious disagreements with Church teaching?

When people disagree with some doctrinal teaching of the Church there is always the possiblity that they do not have correct information about the teaching. Unfortunately in this time RCIA programs are not always reliable.

You were not clear on the specific problems you are struggling with, other than to indicate it has something to do with conjugal relations. It is possible the information you have on the matter is not correct. It would seem simple to make sure you have the right story and sort it out, or not. But then you said you have serious disagreements with many teachings. That would not be so easy to sort out.

Whether or not you are going to hell, no one can say. If you love God you will go to heaven. The Bible says that the love of God consists in keeping His commandments, obedience. In order to do this grace is required. I hope you receive it.

Men and women are joined in the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. God joins them. Their love for one another is expressed in many ways including sexually. This is a holy thing. In it they share with God in the creation of a new being with an immortal soul. The angels do not have this power. We see that many people can misuse this and become sick, spiritually ill. Something that is intended to be holy is made unclean, dirty. It is possible that in marriage this can happen. A properly formed conscience can guide us and protect us spiritually so that our marriages remain holy and sex is truly fulfilling and an expression of holy love uniting the spouses to one another and God who joins them.
 
If you are ready to assent to the teaching, and to keep striving to understand it fully, then you should not stay outside the Church.

Regarding freedom-- Is a train free on the tracks or off? Is a fish free in the water or out? We are al “free” within the bounds of the nature God gave us and His Divine Law. We are not free to transgress it. We are free to embrace it.
 
I agree. You might find it helpful to think of the teaching on contraception as an ideal to aim towards. As long as you are willing to accept it as an ideal, and not reject it outright, you are doing your best and have no reason to bar yourself from being a Catholic.
Another thing is that the teaching is not on a level with (say) the Holy Trinity, the Blessed Sacrament, the Incarnation, the Redemption. In other words, it is not in the Creed.
I have to say, it is striking to me (in England) to read how much NFP and related topics seem to loom so important to you people in the States, even to defining for some what qualifies someone to be a Catholic.
I have never heard the subject mentioned in homilies. Perhaps it’s because over here we are so overcrowded, and so limiting the family’s size is taken for granted as being responsible.
 
paperwight said:
I agree. You might find it helpful to think of the teaching on contraception as an ideal to aim towards. As long as you are willing to accept it as an ideal, and not reject it outright, you are doing your best and have no reason to bar yourself from being a Catholic.
Another thing is that the teaching is not on a level with (say) the Holy Trinity, the Blessed Sacrament, the Incarnation, the Redemption. In other words, it is not in the Creed.
I have to say, it is striking to me (in England) to read how much NFP and related topics seem to loom so important to you people in the States, even to defining for some what qualifies someone to be a Catholic.
I have never heard the subject mentioned in homilies. Perhaps it’s because over here we are so overcrowded, and so limiting the family’s size is taken for granted as being responsible.
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The problem with it however is when a person chooses to use ABC, the choose to cut themselves off from the Sacraments of the Church. They cannot receive Holy Communion, Anointing of the Sick, and in the case of a person in RCIA, Confirmation, until they receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation and Absolution for choosing to use ABC. Absolution is not available until they can choose not to use ABC any longer. It’s hard to imagine “slipping” and using ABC? Use of ABC is by it’s nature intentional. By receiving Holy Communion in this state they just compound their sinfulness.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
The problem with it however is when a person chooses to use ABC, the choose to cut themselves off from the Sacraments of the Church. They cannot receive Holy Communion, Anointing of the Sick, and in the case of a person in RCIA, Confirmation, until they receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation and Absolution for choosing to use ABC. Absolution is not available until they can choose not to use ABC any longer.
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Well, you say ‘cannot receive Holy Communion’ and so on, but I’ve yet to see anyone stopping people on their way to the altar to ask them what method of family planning they use. So in what sense ‘cannot’?

It’s just never mentioned, it’s a non-issue. In homilies, it certainly doesn’t define who is a Catholic, whereas giving to the missions, and doing works of mercy does. And I’m happy with that, I have to say.
In the parable of the sheep and the goats, how were the crowds sorted into sheep and goats? By how they had fed the hungry and so on, not by what method of birth control they had used. It clearly wasn’t much of an issue for the Jesus of the Gospels either.

Reading these boards,it seems such an American obsession.
 
paperwight said:
Reading these boards,it seems such an American obsession.
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I am not sure that the catechumen’s problem is with the Church teaching on birth control, but rather some other teaching regarding sexual practices of couples.

The notion that Americans are obessessed with upholding Church teaching and that is peculiar to them is nonsense. The late Pope John Paul II wrote the encyclical Theology of the Body. Paul VI wrote Humanae Vitae inculding dire warnings on the consequences to a society that would turn to artificial contraception. Every other pope upholds the teaching. It was not a new teaching, that contracepting is a grave sin, but Paul VI only reaffirmed it. Maybe it is ignored in England and other places as well. That does not change the teaching of the Church on the gravity of the sin, and its consequences.
 
paperwight said:
Well, you say ‘cannot receive Holy Communion’ and so on, but I’ve yet to see anyone stopping people on their way to the altar to ask them what method of family planning they use. So in what sense ‘cannot’?

It’s just never mentioned, it’s a non-issue. In homilies, it certainly doesn’t define who is a Catholic, whereas giving to the missions, and doing works of mercy does. And I’m happy with that, I have to say.
In the parable of the sheep and the goats, how were the crowds sorted into sheep and goats? By how they had fed the hungry and so on, not by what method of birth control they had used. It clearly wasn’t much of an issue for the Jesus of the Gospels either.

Reading these boards,it seems such an American obsession.
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It is a serious issue, and the Church does clearly state that those aware of Mortal on their souls CANNOT approach the Sacraments until they have confessed and received absolution in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Of course a person in Mortal sin cuts themselves off from God’s Grace, but does not cease being a Catholic. Jesus does forgive even the woman caught in adultery, but the next line is also important! “now go and sin no more”
 
paperwight said:
Well, you say ‘cannot receive Holy Communion’ and so on, but I’ve yet to see anyone stopping people on their way to the altar to ask them what method of family planning they use. So in what sense ‘cannot’?
Reading these boards,it seems such an American obsession.
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There is no one stopping people on the way to the altar to ask them if they are murderers, adulterers, hired assassins, cocaine dealers, that they are in the state of grace, or even if they are Catholic. So in what sense cannot they receive? It is one’s conscience that should stop someone who is involved in grave sin from approaching the altar. Saint Paul tells us they bring condemnation upon themselves. It is an act of sacrilege, even in merry olde England where sharia law is about to be embraced.
 
Well I understand that Jesus is one with His church and that He gave authority to the bishop/Apostles over faith and morals. I also understand that God gave us everything from the sun to the cash in my bank account and sex. I also understand that God gave us rules for it all, they’re called Laws. We can read about the Laws of God in Leviticus and even in Romans 7.

What I have trouble understanding is that people want Jesus as their Savior but not as their Lord and before He can save us He has to be Lord over everything in our lives.That includes our sex life.

It’s like saying…

“Jesus you are my Lord over everything except my sex life, that is none of your business.”

But if He is not Lord over our sex life then He is not Lord over anything in our lives.

With God we have everything without God we have nothing.

To be truly intimate with Jesus who is our Lord we must include Him in everything, even the sexual part of our lives, don’t you think?

Leviticus 18 has laws concerning sex…and 1 Corinthians 7 discusses lust and marriage.
 
Thank you all for your replies. I have made my peace with the Church and its teachings on this subject.
 
RHC said:
Thank you all for your replies. I have made my peace with the Church and its teachings on this subject.
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You are going through the normal healthy process of questioning, doubting, resolving religious precepts and shaping conscience and understanding.

We ask why about everything, from about the time we are two year olds. That is how God made us.

Just about everyone at one time or another confronts a situation where some teaching of the Church does not make sense.
We also realize that our reason can fail us. We can be wrong and if we are then there are generally consequences. So we try to look at things from the perspective of the mind of the Church. All of the popes and saints who came before us thought about the same things and are in agreement pretty much. We try to bring our own understanding into alignment with their’s.

God bless you on your journey.
 
If everyone had to wait until they completely understood all teachings, would we be able to raise our children Catholic? Just a thought. I think as long as you are willing to live by a teaching and continue to learn, I don’t see why there would be a problem, however, I would not take my opinion I’d ask a priest.
 
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