Urgently Need Prayers/Advice for Fiance'

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Of course sex is the big issue. Its how you give yourself to someone completely and express your love. Having someone take that from you is a big deal. To not expect him to be hurt and angry is insane.

And I understand that she’s doing it for god, but I’m not sure he does. And I don’t think she understands why he’s so upset, that’s why I recommended counseling.
Counselling is an excelent idea, but she has explained carefully to him. She put doing so off precisely because she knew he would be very upset.

And no, love isn’t giving yourself in sex. Love is wanting and working for and allowing what is for the true good of the other person in good times and bad.
If giving oneself sexually to another equates to love then we need to totally redefine what ‘love’ actually means. There would be millions of people throughout time who have given themselves wholly to each other on a sexual level! How many times has that been an expression of wholehearted, unselfish love. How many times do people think they love someone when it is really based on their own need, and they’re good to the other only because it suits them, then as soon as things become difficult and GENUINE LOVE is required, they say “I don’t love you any more” which actually means, "I never really loved you but it suited me to be in this relationship for emotional and physical needs, not really because I loved you and cared about your true good. Now things are hard, or something that appeals to me more is on offer, I’m off!!!"How many times just selfishness.
Sex is not a very good description of love. It can mask the fact that one or both don’t love the other person but only themselves, that one or both of them only loves self, under the convincing surface.

Of course the young man is upset. His applecart has been turned over. If he genuinely loves her, he would still be upset, but he would respect the fact that this is what his partner needs for their wholesome inner development.

(This man has told her he doesn’t love her, by the way)
 
I’m well aware of oxytocin (it is released during childbirth too). I understand and respect your point of view, although it greatly differs from mine. My only point is that when you don’t hold those religious beliefs abstaining in a loving and committed relationship doesn’t make a lot of sense, and that his feelings are valid. They need communication and understanding right now if they hope to make this work.
 
My only point is that when you don’t hold those religious beliefs abstaining in a loving and committed relationship doesn’t make a lot of sense, and that his feelings are valid. They need communication and understanding right now if they hope to make this work.
Her feelings are just as valid. You are correct though, communication is key, but he has chosen to not communicate, but to retaliate by saying that he doesn’t love her. That is not the mature and rational response of a man in love.

I am sorry to say that this may be a breaking point, or a wake up call to the OP that this isn’t the guy for her. Yes, now that she is taking her faith seriously, she is a different person than she was before. If her boyfriend is not going along with it, I don’t see how it can work.
 
Counselling is an excelent idea, but she has explained carefully to him. She put doing so off precisely because she knew he would be very upset.

And no, love isn’t giving yourself in sex. Love is wanting and working for and allowing what is for the true good of the other person in good times and bad.
If giving oneself sexually to another equates to love then we need to totally redefine what ‘love’ actually means. There would be millions of people throughout time who have given themselves wholly to each other on a sexual level! How many times has that been an expression of wholehearted, unselfish love. How many times do people think they love someone when it is really based on their own need, and they’re good to the other only because it suits them, then as soon as things become difficult and GENUINE LOVE is required, they say “I don’t love you any more” which actually means, "I never really loved you but it suited me to be in this relationship for emotional and physical needs, not really because I loved you and cared about your true good. Now things are hard, or something that appeals to me more is on offer, I’m off!!!"How many times just selfishness.
Sex is not a very good description of love. It can mask the fact that one or both don’t love the other person but only themselves, that one or both of them only loves self, under the convincing surface.

Of course the young man is upset. His applecart has been turned over. If he genuinely loves her, he would still be upset, but he would respect the fact that this is what his partner needs for their wholesome inner development.

(This man has told her he doesn’t love her, by the way)
I do not feel that Blue Eyed Lady is saying that sex is equivalent to love. She is merely intimating that sex is the ultimate expression of love. These two have been living together like they are husband and wife. Because she has suddenly “changed all the rules”, her boyfriend is having trouble adjusting. He is saying things, most likely, because he is hurt and doesn’t really understand (her motive for changing is God). Her boyfriend is not relating to that. I find it so strange that those who imply that they value lasting relationships and say that marriage is so much more than sex are so set on telling this woman to dump the one she says is her soul mate because of one fight–and because he said some things that he may not even have meant but said because he is hurt. I’ve been married for over 31 years. If I had taken the attitude of some of you, I would have been divorced years ago! Some of you are so childish in understanding how real relationships really work. Sometimes they’re messy and imperfect. People say things they do not mean. I wonder how many of you who are telling her to dump him even have relationships–or long lasting ones anyway. Some of you sound so judgmental and seem so unwilling to put yourself in her boyfriend/fiance’s position. And I am in no way condoning premarital sex. I am only saying that just because he is angry and has said hurtful things–it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love her. She has made her choice to obey God; he must choose to accept her decision or decide it isn’t worth his trouble. But I find it discouraging that so many Christians are so unable to see life from anyone else’s point of view, and that as a result are so willing to simply throw people away and discard those who haven’t “arrived” like they seem to think they have.
 
I’m not throwing him out, I said I would pray for them both. Think about it,they have been
living together for over four years. He knew she was a Cathoilc but unfortunately wasn’t
practicing her faith to the fullest. Regardless of what religion he is,he knew what they were doing was wrong. She was enlightened by the Holy Spirit and decided to follow her faith to the fullness. Sure, he was in shock,but if he really loved her he would of been open to listen to her.
This could had been a Grace from God. Saving you from possibly making a Huge mistake
that would be irreverseable.
I have known many couples in similar situations and everyone of them ended in Divorce or they staying together for the sake of the children but there’s no love between them.

I urge you to take a closer look at the relationship and at adoration pray and ask Jesus
with all your heart for help and guidance.

God Bless!
 
Easily reject him?? Where are you getting that idea? This girl poured her heart out in a letter that she claims was as tender and loving as possible!

If he feels rejected it’s one, because of his ego and 2, because he is obstinate and does not WANT to understand her reasons, her concerns and her intentions. Or,like I said, he does not feel rejected, but rather scared!

This is definitely not a " hi honey, I just turned Catholic so we will not be sleeping together anymore". It has been a journey for the OP, one that her fiance was well aware of.
First, thank you all for your responses to my dilemma. I appreciate them very much, and even though we may not agree 100% with eachother, the fact that so many of you have taken the time to respond is a testament to your charity and love.

I wanted to quote a lot of people, but for the sake of brevity chose the above, because it encapsulates a few things that I think are important.

Yes, he is obstinate. And after having a few days to digest what’s been going on, I do think that his reaction stems from fear. Fear of finding out I’m right, fear of the truth, fear of how he will handle the truth - either run from it, or face it and conform his life to it. Probing your fear is the hardest part of conversion, and only grace will help him through it - if he desires to accept it.

I have fears of my own, and putting pen to paper was a huge act of faith in the face of these fears. I knew that I had to write the letter, because as I was explaining my situation in Confession, my confessor heard the word “write” and cut me off to tell me so. (He wasn’t my usual confessor, so, being unfamiliar with my case, I had to fill him in on my background.) So after much reflection and prayer to the Holy Spirit for guidance, I did it. I may have failed, but at least I know I did what the Lord wanted me to do. That doesn’t mean I’m not afraid anymore - I am - but I also know that this fear is a side-effect of pride; that deep down I think I know what’s best for me, when only God does.

The above poster is also correct in that my change didn’t come out of nowhere. My journey back to the faith had been obvious, and it stretched over the course of a few years. I certainly never did anything to hide it from my fiance’. He’s known from the beginning that I’m a cradle Catholic, and he even attended my Confirmation ceremony last year. I think he just didn’t bother to connect the dots. I’m not saying he was deliberately being careless, just that he assumed it would never alter our relationship. Is that selfish of him? Yes. But having never been given any sort of faith formation in his life, there were/are a lot of things about Christianity (let alone the Church) that just never occurred to him. There were a lot of things that never occurred to me, either, until I picked up the Catechism. But now that he knows where I stand, we’re at a crossroads. He’s being offered an opportunity to learn about my faith and therefore understand where I’m coming from. And I feel as if our future together hinges upon his “Yes” or his “No.”

Additionally, he’d had a few months to chew on the idea of being celibate before marriage, so I didn’t just drop it on him, because I knew that approach would have been wretchedly unfair. When I first brought the topic up, I immediately faced despair, hostility, incredulity. I tried as gently as I could to get him to agree that all Christians (he says that he is one) hold fast to the same belief in “no sex before marriage.” His response was, “Well, times have changed.” My heart sank, but I attempted to explain the fact that Christ never changes, will never change, despite what our society would have us believe. “I don’t want this,” is what I received in reply. And so around and around we went.

Does his reaction to my letter give me cause to question his character? Yes. Does it make me wonder whether we are meant to be together? Yes. Do I regret the mistake of setting a poor example for him by cohabitating with him? Yes.

It’s been a difficult journey. Extricating myself from the cynicism that had been wrapped around my heart for so long wasn’t easy. Realizing how much I’d conformed myself to the world was devastating. The process of examining my conscience felt nearly impossible. All of this, through the grace of God, has been wiped away. Now, my fiance’ is standing at the edge of the same abyss… May God grant us both the patience to see this through. Whatever the outcome. Fear or no fear. Heartbreak or no.

Thank you all for your continued support, advice and prayers. From the bottom of my heart. God bless you all.
 
God bless you so much dear sister.

I really feel for you… I too have been in relationships with guys that didn’t want to deal with chastity, who pushed or manipulated, or told me I was very unfair by withholding sexual contact.
Actually I recently came out of one… It was a really good man, but his twisting of the catechism and “knowing better than the Church” made our relationship sour and I felt he was in a different world when we spoke about certain things.

Often we are blinded so much by infatuation that we excuse people whom we love. And oh yes we love them… but we also have a feeling of dependance on them, we have a lot of motives for staying with a guy, especially if we have crossed the lines into forbidden territory but also if we just have a lot of time and memories spent on someone…

Its so so hard to go through that process of looking one’s sin in the eye, and asking God’s mercy and forgiveness. Its a deeply humbling experience where you are bound to die somewhat to yourself… I know I had to some years ago, and continue to have to. Its darn hard, and as someone once said: our ego dies 15 minutes after we do.
Its a painful but necessary process. The fruit? - The peace that passes all understanding. The peace that comes from doing the right thing…

I don’t know about you… But I experience confession as a huge miracle. Often I have been spiritually and psychologically confused and in rebellion: and under such strange effect by sin, even I had a sort of weight on my body which I could litterally feel being lifted off me at the moment of absolution. I know that evil is real… just as real as goodness. And the evil one precisely wants us to walk around in oblivion. He is constantly whispering to us: Did God really say?.. There is a battle going on about our minds.
The next card the devil will pull on you is to get you to despair. Don’t listen to him. Keep your eyes on Jesus. He has known and loved you from the beginning… always knowing you would lapse into a sin but also that He would give you the grace you needed now…
Confession is absolutely a sacrament of healing.

You are a courageous woman. A daughter of the Father in Heaven who created you for a true and lasting happiness already to be known in this life.
I admire you.

Keep us updated dear sister.
 
Sweetmre82 having read your update I am admiring of you.
You are a great witness to the two commandments of Jesus, and you have spoken with wisdom, compassion, honesty, and faith.
May God bless you abundantly
 
I see my prayer was answered. Thank You Jesus!
You are moving forward with Jesus. What ever the outcome is, you’ll be doing the will of Jesus. I’m very happy for you, you’re moving in the right direction.
God Bless and take care.🙂
 
Thank you all so much. You are so gracious and kind.

Things are still very cold between my fiance’ and I, but I’m trying to take it one moment at a time. Your prayers have helped me more than I could’ve imagined, so please continue to pray! Thank you, thank you.

I wasn’t sure if I should post this as a new thread, but I thought I’d put it here first.

I am also going through an annulment right now. I was divorced five years ago, and only got the paperwork in to my parish priest about a month ago. Over the past year or so, (ever since I started the paperwork process for the annulment) I’ve been dealing with sporadic periods of regret and sadness over my divorce, during which I really miss my ex-husband. I was the one who left him, and it was only after about five months of being married. Back then I was selfish and ignorant and angry, but have since then been forgiven by my ex-husband and Christ (through confession).

When these feelings started to get pretty overwhelming, I realized that the annulment process is one of healing, and that these feelings were probably pretty normal for someone in my situation, who had to face up to the fact that she was responsible for letting everything fall apart. (I’d never given my divorce or my ex-husband any serious thought until I was forced to face myself in the annulment questionnaire.)

After speaking with my sister about it and getting it off my chest, I felt a little better. I eventually stopped having to remind myself that all was forgiven, and the feelings went away. This was about eight months ago. Yet there’s always been this tiny feeling in the back of my brain whenever I think of my ex-husband. I figured that would go away, too, as he’s obviously moved on with his life. After a while, I forgot about the voice, too.

These feelings were cropping up pretty badly during a good time in my relationship with my fiance’, when things were secure between us and it would’ve been a shock to even imagine storm clouds hanging over our future together. So imagine how troubled I was by these feelings at the time. It almost felt like I was betraying my fiance’.

But now, the past two nights have been horrible for me. I’ve been having constant dreams about my ex (not sexual) that follow me upon waking and fill me with this terrible longing for him that keeps growing and won’t seem to cease. I try not to entertain thoughts or feelings about him, but they’re insistent and pervasive, and this ache in my chest regarding my ex just will not go away. It has almost overshadowed how I’m feeling right now regarding my troubles with my fiance’. I know this was probably sparked by the fact that I just found out my ex is back in town, living and working here. But that just doesn’t justify feelings coming out of nowhere.

Does it seem weird that I’ve been regretting this annulment from the beginning? At first I thought the regret was from the enemy, that he didn’t want me to go through with it, so that I would continue to be in bad standing with the Church. But now, I don’t know. I’ve been praying for my ex and for my fiance’ with renewed vigor, but, I guess my question is this: Could these dreams/feelings that are coming out of nowhere somehow be a prompting from God to try and reconcile with my ex-husband? or am I just being ridiculous?

Thank you all in advance for your kind (name removed by moderator)ut. You all must think I’m a total basket case by now…
 
You need to separate. Stop living together. You’ve spent all this time living with someone without getting the clarity you need to determine if he is the right person to enter the SACRAMENT of marriage with.

Is this the man you will build a Catholic family with? A spiritual leader for your household? A man who will teach your children what it means to be a man of faith and of God?

No. He isn’t.

And, you have been BLESSED to have discovered these things BEFORE you marry him. Clearly, you know you need to stop sinning. I suggest you separate into different households and work on your relationship on equal footing. Do not be in a dependent situation of living with him, constantly tempted to slide back into “not” talking about it.

I think you will find that he was happy to go along shacked up with you and isn’t really interested in the kind of life you want to have now, one of holiness and faith and love for God.

Get out now.
I agree, and this is a hard lesson to learn, but, be strong and pray to GOD for clarity, courage and strength of purpose…your fiance has come to a place which says choose me or choose GOD!?

I recognize the signs…at this moment you are not doing or acting as he wants, so you are being punished to come back into his line of being, in order for him to stay with you…let him go. He has little to no respect, for your feelings, ideas, life purpose as a Daughter of GOD.

The real problem began years ago, when out of mutual respect and love these issues had to have been placed out in the open. When a man says he does not believe in GOD (and in your deepest heart, you do!), do not believe he is going to change, because you will change him…it is one of the oldest problems women have had, probably since time began.

I am so sorry for the years you have spent with him in this life, but, open your eyes and
see him clearly. He is looking to go if you don’t fall in line, and I pray you surprise him, with the strength GOD gives you…to go forward in life and find a mate who is GOD loving, too…Life with him, on this roller coaster of emotional abuse would have made your life miserable.
 
If I had strong advice, I would give it. I lack the wisdom.

What I can tell you was that as a guy, I never found the strength to confront my wife about our premarital relations. I admire your courage.
 
Thank you for saying that you admire my courage.

Mother Angelica once said, “Some people say I am a woman of great faith. I’m really a coward who keeps moving forward.”

If I am a person of any faith at all, I can only hope I share in her kind of cowardice.

God bless.
 
The feelings and dreams of your husband that you mention in your second last post are very touching and sad.
I wonder if you need to be out on your own for a while?

Have you considered speaking to your husband and asking him if he harbors such feelings towards you, and if a future with him is possible?
That may be too difficult as you mentioned that he has moved on,
but your confusion… does it throw doubt on your feelings towards your fiance?
Maybe you need time?

I really hope you make the right decision regarding your future.
 
Dear Sweetmre82,

What were the reasons why you thought your first marriage was invalid? There must have been some grave reason for believing there really was no valid marriage…
Your nasty behaviour *after *** the wedding doesn’t make it more or less valid, you know?
At any rate, until you have been granted an annulment by the Church you can assume that you are a married woman and thus not free to be with anyone else.
 
It’s been a difficult journey. Extricating myself from the cynicism that had been wrapped around my heart for so long wasn’t easy. Realizing how much I’d conformed myself to the world was devastating. The process of examining my conscience felt nearly impossible. All of this, through the grace of God, has been wiped away. Now, my fiance’ is standing at the edge of the same abyss… May God grant us both the patience to see this through. Whatever the outcome. Fear or no fear. Heartbreak or no.

Thank you all for your continued support, advice and prayers. From the bottom of my heart. God bless you all.
Wow! I admire the fact that you were able to examine your life, see the truth and make changes. God will bless you, whatever the outcome.
 
Dear Sweetmre82,

What were the reasons why you thought your first marriage was invalid? There must have been some grave reason for believing there really was no valid marriage…
Your nasty behaviour *after *** the wedding doesn’t make it more or less valid, you know?
At any rate, until you have been granted an annulment by the Church you can assume that you are a married woman and thus not free to be with anyone else.
Dear GraceDK,

I truly believe my first marriage was invalid, because I was completely ignorant (up to, during, and for a long time after the ceremony) of what the marriage Sacrament means. If anyone had asked me at the time, “What are the seven Sacraments,” or, “What is grace?” I would’ve looked at them as if they were speaking Greek. In addition to my ignorance with regard to the deeply profound meaning of the institution of marriage, I was plagued with doubts (for months beforehand) about my relationship with my ex that were so distressing, I had a severe panic attack during the ceremony that didn’t end until well after the reception. I barely have any recollection of the actual event because of it.

So I had legitimate doubts, was extremely immature, and lacked the proper understanding of the Sacrament before and during the ceremony. Before sending my paperwork off to the Diocese, my parish priest told me that he expected the tribunal to find the marriage invalid, so I’ve aligned myself with his expectation. Of course, anything can happen, so I’m determined to remain open to whatever the finding turns out to be.

I now also understand that because the Church hasn’t found my first marriage to be invalid, that I am therefore sill married to my ex in the eyes of the Church. That was a hard pill to swallow when I began my journey back. And unfortunately, because I’d already set the very poor precedent of living with my fiance’ when I discovered this truth, it was a great struggle to conform myself to it. One day at a time, and here we are. At least he’s sleeping in the guest bedroom now…

So there’s the reasoning for why my first marriage was invalid. I hope I did well in answering your question. Your insight has been invaluable to me, so thank you!
 
Wow! I admire the fact that you were able to examine your life, see the truth and make changes. God will bless you, whatever the outcome.
Thank you so much for your encouragement. I truly appreciate it.

God bless you, too.
 
The feelings and dreams of your husband that you mention in your second last post are very touching and sad.
I wonder if you need to be out on your own for a while?

Have you considered speaking to your husband and asking him if he harbors such feelings towards you, and if a future with him is possible?
That may be too difficult as you mentioned that he has moved on,
but your confusion… does it throw doubt on your feelings towards your fiance?
Maybe you need time?

I really hope you make the right decision regarding your future.
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I didn’t mean to skip your post earlier when I was responding to others’.

I’ve thought about the possibility of being out on my own for a while, and although it would be extremely difficult, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility. I’ve been unemployed now for the past two years, so it’s not a stretch to say that I’m penniless, but I am fortunate enough to have family that would take me in if I asked. I struggle with pride when thinking about doing that, because I know it would be a strain on my family, though they would take me in regardless. I will continue to think and pray about it.

With regard to my ex husband, it would be extremely difficult to broach the topic of my feelings with him. I don’t really have any idea about how he feels towards me, either, other than that he’s forgiven me for my past failures.

And all of this does make me question my feelings towards my fiance’. Simply by virtue of the fact that - even during good times - I’ve always held this regret about my ex. Logic and reason tell me that’s some kind of sign, though discerning what it means is another beast entirely. Of course my fiance’s actions and attitude over the past week haven’t helped his case in the slightest. He’s still barely maintaining civility - when he has no other choice than to speak to me. I don’t want to give up fighting, though. I feel as if I need a difinitive “Yes” or “No” from him before I can move on, let alone contact my ex. So I guess the ball is still in his court.

Until then, I have to decide whether I’m going to continue to stay here while he ‘‘decides’’ what he wants to do. That isn’t going to be easy, so please continue to pray for me, and for my fiance’. I can’t discern the state of his soul, but somehow I sense that he’s teetering on the edge of total darkness. He’s never been challenged like this before, never been faced with stark spiritual truths. I am certainly no mystic, but I have a strong feeling that if he runs from the truth this time, he’s going to disappear into the spiritus mundi and never return. I suppose that’s why I want to hear a difinitive answer from him before I consider this relationship over and start to move on.

Does that make sense?
 
Honey I wish I could give you some advice… but I can’t.

All I can think of saying is what I also say to myself these last difficult days and weeks: Don’t look for signs (thinking God uses strange hints and emotions in you to show you the way), don’t look at your emotions (they can and will change, anxiety can have a major influence on wanting past safeties back (the ex) etc. and whether you like it or not, having had a long sexual relationship with a man will make any woman loose her objective view of that person.
So: stay out of sin, talk to your priest and confess often, talk to good Catholics at your parish, and rely on your rational powers only - not your emotions.
  • coming from a girl who just came out of a highly emotional probably co-dependant relationship which did NOT work. I’ve spent the last two years trying to look for God’s signs and second guessing Him, because I wasn’t ready to let go of my own dreams and hopes… the right thing from the beginning would have been for me to walk away… but oh how stubborn we can be when we have some idea in our heads.
Ask God only that you stay in the Truth, in every sense of the word. Thats my advice.
 
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