USCCB then and now

[Holland]

In 1976 the USCCB called for discussion with the Vatican on women in the Priesthood and married priests, among other things. This info comes from the Call to Action website. What was the outcome and what postition does the USCCB take on these issues now? It doesn’t really tell you anything on the website.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

The USCCB cannot discuss the issue as something which is possible because Pope John Paul II wrote this addressing the isuse very eloquently (link):

APOSTOLIC LETTER
ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS
OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON RESERVING PRIESTLY ORDINATION
TO MEN ALONE

After reading that document, written in 1994, you may want to read the followup provided by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Someone wanted to know if this required assent and the answer comes in the form of a “responsum ad dubium”. The response is in the link below and says, in part:

This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFRESPO.HTM

The nail has been put in the coffin on this issue so the Bishops cannot in any way speak about this as if it is still possible. In fact, any Catholic viewing this as discussible is disobeying the Church (sin of pride). It is no longer an option to discuss.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Call to Action is a dissenting organization. They have many agendas which dissent from Catholic teaching - from promoting women’s ordination in defiance of the Church to issues involving homosexuality. I don’t think you will find them promoting chastity.

There are many things you won’t find on their website. Try typing in chastity, or Real Presence, for that matter.

 

[Holland]

So what happened between 1976 and 1994? Did the U.S. Bishops push this issue with the Vatican?

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Holland:

So what happened between 1976 and 1994? Did the U.S. Bishops push this issue with the Vatican?

Peace be with you!

I’m not sure, but I’m betting someone did. JPII had the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (then headed by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger) look into the issue. They came up with a document entitled *Declaration Inter Insigniores on the question of the Admission of Women to the Ministerial Priesthood *and that’s the document JPII quotes in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis when he says that he declares the Church has no authority to ordain women as priests.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Kotton]

Lux_et_veritas:

The nail has been put in the coffin on this issue … It is no longer an option to discuss.

But this doesn’t keep a few from thinking they can beat the wall down. :banghead:

Kotton

 

[Holland]

What I am trying to find out is what American Catholics want? Was this a huge disconnect between the clergy and the congregation? Do American Catholics want their priests to have the option to marry? Do they want women in the priesthood?

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Holland:

What I am trying to find out is what American Catholics want? Was this a huge disconnect between the clergy and the congregation? Do American Catholics want their priests to have the option to marry? Do they want women in the priesthood?

Peace be with you!

For many, yes, yes, and yes. This is without any understanding whatsoever of WHY these things are the way they are, of course.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Holland:

What I am trying to find out is what American Catholics want? Was this a huge disconnect between the clergy and the congregation? Do American Catholics want their priests to have the option to marry? Do they want women in the priesthood?

The Most Holy Catholic Church is not a democracy. Unlike the government, polls do not (and are not suppose to) sway Church leaders. Rather, we believe that the Magisterium is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit Himself.

All that belongs to the “deposit of faith” requires our assent. That now includes the teaching and instruction on why the Church cannot ordain women. So, to discuss it further is completely moot. It is also disrespectful of the Magisterium which has spoken on the issue.

On the matter of celebacy, the Church does have some room to move. However, the Bishops have spoken overwhelmingly that at this time, they do not feel it is a solution to the priest shortage. The eastern rite Catholic bishops spoke up at the synod, explaining the kinds of problems that can happen. There are divorces, it is difficult for a priest to not neglect one of his two families as he divides his time, etc. Also noted is that other Christian faiths which allow marraige still have shortage like the Catholic clergy has.

Furthermore, the vocation crisis has some interesting things behind it which are only in recent years becoming visible for all to see. Recommended reading:

goodbyegoodmen.com/contents.html

thewandererpress.com/amchurch.htm

One last statment about the issue like women’s ordination. The true Catholic faith is one built on virtue. It is not virtuous to challenge the Magisterium after she speaks and is actually quite prideful. What I mean by that is people want to have things their way. Yet, they will say, “Your will Lord, not mine”, but will append it with (as long as your will coincides with mine). It is a contradiction. Jesus Christ stood for many things and one of them was obedience. He was obedient to death, death on a cross.

 

[steveandersen]

Holland:

What I am trying to find out is what American Catholics want? Was this a huge disconnect between the clergy and the congregation? Do American Catholics want their priests to have the option to marry? Do they want women in the priesthood?

I would imagine that some do, some don’t.
As on many issues I’m sure opinions vary.

There are very vocal groups on either side of the issues you mention with a big quiet mass (if you pardon the expression) of folks in the middle who could probably go either way depending upon the leadership.

An internet forum is probably not a good way to judge consensus since the participants are probably not a representative sample.

Of course the Church isn’t a democracy as such but people do vote with their feet.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

steveandersen:

Of course the Church isn’t a democracy as such but people do vote with their feet.

Yeah, and in scripture when Christ held the line on something, he didn’t go running after those who voted with their feet. He simply let them go and tend to their own pride.

The celebacy rule is one thing. To ignore and continue discussing an issue that has already been clarified and is stated to be “in the deposit of faith”, is to play with fire. Deposit of faith issues require assent, not further “dialogue”. That is why Pope John Paul II wrote the apostolic issue. He did not make a decision, he simply brought forth the Church’s position based on Sacred Tradition.

The Church cannot ordain women and no pope in the futre can change this either. Popes don’t go around just changing something because “the people” want it. What if “the people” wanted to make pre-marital sex an ok thing? Already large numbers of Catholics are actively engaged in this sin against the commandments (which they treat as “the 10 suggestions”).

Once it is declared to be in the deposit of faith, that is it - end of discussion. People need to humble themselves and accept it, or they may pridefully walk away believing in their own conclusions.

If that is the case, why have a church at all. We can just have everyone making all decisions for themselves according to a conscience they have formed in the absence of magisterial teaching. To the contrary, conscience must be formed according to the teachings of the Church.