Using a condom

[budgie2]

Hi, I’m here to ask priests why people discriminate against me for my views on barrier methods. I believe that condoms are sometimes in accordance with conscience. But it depends on circumstances.

I am a British Catholic. Here in Britain Catholics are only 5% of the population whereas in the US Catholics are 50% of the population. Our community has been discriminated against since the Reformation. Britain has a strong contraception and abortion culture and very weak abstinence campaigns. I personally know nobody who uses NFP and they are certainly in the minority. We also have a lot of mixed marriages in the Catholic Church. A lot of our youth are chucking morning after pills down their throat. I think it’s right for the Catholic Church in Britain to be lenient on barrier methods and tough on abortifacient birth control.

This is what the Catholic Church in Britain should be tough on:
spuc.org.uk/documents/papers/BirthControlBooklet.pdf

 

[JohnDamian]

Im an English citizen and I can say that using your geographic location as an excuse to transgress moral laws is unnacceptable. Using contraception of the barrier method is no different to masturbation or sodomy; insofar as it abuses the sexual function whilst being closed to the possibility of God’s gift of pregnancy.

As you rightly point out; it appears that abortive means are worse insofar as they contract a murder as well as the aforementioned; but such relatavism does not impugn the obscenity of contraception in general.

I think the Catholic Church should do what it says on the tin and be the Universal(καθολικός) Church; and have no excuses for immorality merely because of the weaknesses of certain geographic groups.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Like many errant Catholics, you try to hide behind the “following your conscience” clause. Unfortunately, you never mention (or realize?) that your conscience must be formed properly, BY the Church. The Church says that all sex outside of marriage is sinful. And that artificial birth control is also sinful.

 

[JohnCS]

This word, “discriminate”, gets tossed around here in the states too. How exactly are you being discriminated against, and by whom? Also, Catholics only make up like 22% of the population here, not 50%. The other 2 posters said everything else I was going to say
God bless,

John

 

[Newbie2]

Hi, I’m here to ask priests why people discriminate against me for my views on barrier methods. I believe that condoms are sometimes in accordance with conscience. But it depends on circumstances.

I am a British Catholic. Here in Britain Catholics are only 5% of the population whereas in the US Catholics are 50% of the population. Our community has been discriminated against since the Reformation. Britain has a strong contraception and abortion culture and very weak abstinence campaigns. I personally know nobody who uses NFP and they are certainly in the minority. We also have a lot of mixed marriages in the Catholic Church. A lot of our youth are chucking morning after pills down their throat. I think it’s right for the Catholic Church in Britain to be lenient on barrier methods and tough on abortifacient birth control.

This is what the Catholic Church in Britain should be tough on:
spuc.org.uk/documents/papers/BirthControlBooklet.pdf

Would you please elaborate on how you’re discriminated against?

 

[Mijoy2]

In the movie the “Summer of 42” they said they were going to use condoms to fill up with water and throw off the roof.

I believe the church teaches this is okay in any country.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi, I’m here to ask priests why people discriminate against me for my views on barrier methods. Idf

how have you been discriminated against for your views? Have you been accused and convicted of a crime or civil offense because of them? denied employment, education, or habitation? deprived of financial support or of your civil rights because of them?

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

how have you been discriminated against for your views? Have you been accused and convicted of a crime or civil offense because of them? denied employment, education, or habitation? deprived of financial support or of your civil rights because of them?

I think she might mean that whenever she posts about using a condom, especially as advice to someone seeking NFP advice, others posters correct her.

BUT it isn’t discimination, it is gentle correction. A person should be given the truth, and not a lie regarding condom use and the Catholic faith.

 

[DavidPalm]

In the movie the “Summer of 42” they said they were going to use condoms to fill up with water and throw off the roof.

I believe the church teaches this is okay in any country.

 

[1ke]

Hi, I’m here to ask priests why people discriminate against me for my views on barrier methods. I believe that condoms are sometimes in accordance with conscience. But it depends on circumstances.

No one is **discriminating **against you.

The fact is, you are simply wrong. What you perceive as “discrimination” is people telling you the **truth **about the Church’s teaching.

ALL contraception is a violation of the Sixth Commandment. It’s not a matter of conscience. It’s not a matter of circumstance. It’s a mortal sin, always.

Moreover, when you post on here that condoms are morally acceptable, and go so far as to actually encourage people to use them, you are committing another grave wrong in spreading this falsehood.

So, of course, it is our duty as Catholics to correct your wrongheaded advice that could lead someone into mortal sin.

I am a British Catholic. Here in Britain Catholics are only 5% of the population whereas in the US Catholics are 50% of the population.

Catholics are not 50% of the US population. The US population is approximately 55% Protestant (all varieties combined), 2-5% other types of “Christian” like Mormons, JWs, etc, and 25% Catholic. Other religions, or no religion, make up the remainding 15-20 percent of the population of the population.

Our community has been discriminated against since the Reformation.

Catholics in the US have been discriminated against as well, a product of the mainly British origins of the 13 colonies.

Britain has a strong contraception and abortion culture and very weak abstinence campaigns. I personally know nobody who uses NFP and they are certainly in the minority. We also have a lot of mixed marriages in the Catholic Church. A lot of our youth are chucking morning after pills down their throat.

This is sad and it is the Church’s responsibility to teach the truth.

I think it’s right for the Catholic Church in Britain to be lenient on barrier methods and tough on abortifacient birth control.

You don’t seem to understand that the Church can only teach what is true. The truth is that condoms and other barrier methods are a sin against the Sixth Commandment. The Church can NOT teach someone it is OK to sin. The Church can no more be “lenient” regarding this commandment than she can be “lenient” towards murders, thieves, or those who violate any other commandment.

This it not a “rule” of the Church. It is the moral law of God. The Church can only faithfully hand on the truth. It cannot change it. It cannot condone sin. It cannot do what you propose.

Your job, as a Catholic, is to be a light for the darkness in the world by teaching the TRUTH. You are under a mistaken notion that some forms of contraception are moral. They are not. Your job is to study until you understand Church teaching, not teach heresy to others.

This is what the Catholic Church in Britain should be tough on:
spuc.org.uk/documents/papers/BirthControlBooklet.pdf

The Church cannot proclaim that which is a sin to be anything other than a sin.

You are very misguided and I pray that you will (a) learn the Truth and (b) stop encouraging people to sin.

 

[twopekinguys]

Hi, I’m here to ask priests why people discriminate against me for my views on barrier methods. I believe that condoms are sometimes in accordance with conscience. But it depends on circumstances.

I am a British Catholic. Here in Britain Catholics are only 5% of the population whereas in the US Catholics are 50% of the population. Our community has been discriminated against since the Reformation. Britain has a strong contraception and abortion culture and very weak abstinence campaigns. I personally know nobody who uses NFP and they are certainly in the minority. We also have a lot of mixed marriages in the Catholic Church. A lot of our youth are chucking morning after pills down their throat. I think it’s right for the Catholic Church in Britain to be lenient on barrier methods and tough on abortifacient birth control.

This is what the Catholic Church in Britain should be tough on:
spuc.org.uk/documents/papers/BirthControlBooklet.pdf

1. If you’re not married, you shouldn’t be having sex, so condoms and abortific agents shouldn’t concern you.
2. If you are married, all sexual activity should be a) with your spouse, b) be open to the possiblity of pregnancy. Again, condoms and abortific agents shouldn’t concern you.

Just because you don’t “know” of anyone that uses NFP doesn’t mean they aren’t.

Instead of being in favor of leniency with birth control, why not be in favor of abstinance? Maybe that is your calling.

 

[budgie2]

I don’t know if you’re priests or not but I still find you hard liners. I think a lot of African priests use the forum and your situation may be very different indeed.

I have been excluded for recommending condom use on the forums. However, most of my “Catholic” friends are in fact post-abortion women who will choose to use contraception anyway. Over here condom use is a minor transgression to say the least. I personally have used condoms following rape, but my mum used condoms due to domestic violence.

There’s an ideal world, but in fact the world is very imperfect. There doesn’t seem to be any damage limitation for those who disobey the Church’s teaching. Also the church doesn’t help Catholics who are forced to use contraception or Catholics who suffer abuse from their husband or wife.

 

[davidv]

I don’t know if you’re priests or not but I still find you hard liners. I think a lot of African priests use the forum and your situation may be very different indeed.

I have been excluded for recommending condom use on the forums. However, most of my “Catholic” friends are in fact post-abortion women who will choose to use contraception anyway. Over here condom use is a minor transgression to say the least. I personally have used condoms following rape, but my mum used condoms due to domestic violence.

There’s an ideal world, but in fact the world is very imperfect. There doesn’t seem to be any damage limitation for those who disobey the Church’s teaching. Also the church doesn’t help Catholics who are forced to use contraception or Catholics who suffer abuse from their husband or wife.

Faithful Catholics wil hopefully continue to exclude your sinful recommendation.

Sinners often do not want to be told they are sinners. How do they expect to get to heaven?

The perfect world is the kingdom of Heaven. Nothing impure will enter it.

Your understanding of what causes damage is faulty.

Edit: How does the Church force anyone to do anything?

 

[twopekinguys]

I don’t know if you’re priests or not but I still find you hard liners. I think a lot of African priests use the forum and your situation may be very different indeed.

I have been excluded for recommending condom use on the forums. However, most of my “Catholic” friends are in fact post-abortion women who will choose to use contraception anyway. Over here condom use is a minor transgression to say the least. I personally have used condoms following rape, but my mum used condoms due to domestic violence.

There’s an ideal world, but in fact the world is very imperfect. There doesn’t seem to be any damage limitation for those who disobey the Church’s teaching. Also the church doesn’t help Catholics who are forced to use contraception or Catholics who suffer abuse from their husband or wife.

You aren’t being very consistent with this now are you?

Originally, you were talking about issues regarding NFP, now you are changing it to issues of rape and domestic violence.

You are moving the goal posts.

Your statement about African priests doesn’t really make sense, unless you are talking about condom use for those individuals with HIV/AIDS. If that is what you are talking about, people with that condition need to take responsibility for their actions. Meaning, they should not be engaging in any behavior which may promote the spread of the disease. In other words, abstain from sex.

Also, your statement about the Church not helping Catholics “who are forced to use contraception” is absurd. There is not a person in the world who is “forced” to use contraception. Also, no one is forced to have an abortion. Even in the case of rape.

Finally, the Church does not condone any type of abuse, and you know better than to say otherwise.

If a person finds themselves in an abusive situation, such as rape, or domestic violence, they are responsible for doing everything in their power to get themselves away from it.

There are many shelters, and orphanages, and charities operated by different parts of the Church that help people in these circumstances.

No matter how you try to rationalize it, use of condoms, or recommending the use of condoms is not a “minor transgression”, regardless of where you are.

 

[StevenFrancis]

I think it’s right for the Catholic Church in Britain to be lenient on barrier methods and tough on abortifacient birth control.

I can’t say for sure, and I’m not a priest, let alone a Bishop, which seems to be the level of authority you would need to be seeking, but it’s my understanding that it is not up to the Church to be either lenient of severe based on geography. We are in fact the universal (catholic/Catholic) Church. We have a magesterium, and a universally defined doctrine, catechism, etc… It’s my understanding of truth as a Catholic, vice my opinion in the personal sense, that what we “think is right” for the Church to do in Britain, U.S., Zimbabwe, Argentina, Japan, Moscow, Lebanon, etc. is not important. Our Church is not a democracy. We are the one body of Christ. We are the universal Church of Jesus Christ the saviour is the same yesterday, today and forever. As I said, I’m still learning about some of the authority of the Episcopate, but “leniency” in Church doctrine in an area with this many conotations and tendrils into the foundations of the Jesus’ teachings of the sanctity of human life doesn’t seem to be something they would be allowed to do without a council culminating in a statement ex-cathedra from the Bishop of Rome in capacity of his position in apostolic authority as the Vicar of Christ Jesus which would change the teaching of the Church by authority of the Holy Spirit, and define a dogma I don’t think Christ’s temporal servants would have much justification in even trying to change.

There is still a misunderstanding, even among many of my fellow Catholics that we are somehow some kind of a democracy. Not even close. Our doctine is old. Really old. Also defended to the death by thousands of the Saints, and sealed in the blood of the martyrs. If I thought that we were some sort of relativistic tool of modernism, and that the teachings and traditions of the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church were subject to change because the UK has a low Catholic density ratio, or that it was based in any way on how many pews we filled, or how many people agreed with our doctrine, I’d kind of start wondering about the point of the whole thing. The point is that it doesn’t change. It has taken an extraordinarily long time sometimes to declare a tradition or idea as dogma, but that only serves to make our Church even more evident as the one true Church on earth. If it takes a few hundred years of research into scripture and tradition to finally declare, then chances are it’s not a frivolous idea.

Anyway,

God bless. I know how you feel about various different things like this. I’m just glad that in the Church, my “opinion” isn’t important. It’s helping me to give them up in submission to my Lord.

Peace, my friend,

Steven

 

[mommamaree]

I can’t say for sure, and I’m not a priest, let alone a Bishop, which seems to be the level of authority you would need to be seeking, but it’s my understanding that it is not up to the Church to be either lenient of severe based on geography. We are in fact the universal (catholic/Catholic) Church. We have a magesterium, and a universally defined doctrine, catechism, etc… It’s my understanding of truth as a Catholic, vice my opinion in the personal sense, that what we “think is right” for the Church to do in Britain, U.S., Zimbabwe, Argentina, Japan, Moscow, Lebanon, etc. is not important. Our Church is not a democracy. We are the one body of Christ. We are the universal Church of Jesus Christ the saviour is the same yesterday, today and forever. As I said, I’m still learning about some of the authority of the Episcopate, but “leniency” in Church doctrine in an area with this many conotations and tendrils into the foundations of the Jesus’ teachings of the sanctity of human life doesn’t seem to be something they would be allowed to do without a council culminating in a statement ex-cathedra from the Bishop of Rome in capacity of his position in apostolic authority as the Vicar of Christ Jesus which would change the teaching of the Church by authority of the Holy Spirit, and define a dogma I don’t think Christ’s temporal servants would have much justification in even trying to change.

There is still a misunderstanding, even among many of my fellow Catholics that we are somehow some kind of a democracy. Not even close. Our doctine is old. Really old. Also defended to the death by thousands of the Saints, and sealed in the blood of the martyrs. If I thought that we were some sort of relativistic tool of modernism, and that the teachings and traditions of the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church were subject to change because the UK has a low Catholic density ratio, or that it was based in any way on how many pews we filled, or how many people agreed with our doctrine, I’d kind of start wondering about the point of the whole thing. The point is that it doesn’t change. It has taken an extraordinarily long time sometimes to declare a tradition or idea as dogma, but that only serves to make our Church even more evident as the one true Church on earth. If it takes a few hundred years of research into scripture and tradition to finally declare, then chances are it’s not a frivolous idea.

Anyway,

God bless. I know how you feel about various different things like this. I’m just glad that in the Church, my “opinion” isn’t important. It’s helping me to give them up in submission to my Lord.

Peace, my friend,

Steven

This is the most charitable and wise of any remarks addressing Budgie’s questions here at CAF that I have ever seen.

Budgie, I know that you have many questions and that some teachings of the Church are hard to understand and accept. Just keep studying and praying. Keep attending Mass and going to confession and receiving Communion. God will give you everything you need to be able to understand why the Church says ‘no’ to some things. It isn’t about taking away freedoms. Rather, it is about being giving authentic freedom, the freedom to love and serve with our whole hearts. The freedom from the bondage of sin and death. But sometimes the process of growing in Christ is difficult. It is painful to die to the self. But in exchange for us giving up on our right to our own opinions, for letting go of our selfish/childish desires, for being willing to accept responsibility for our actions, is that we are raised up again in Christ Jesus.
If we find ourselves butting heads with Church teachings on moral dilemmas of our time, or if we find we cannot accept certain Scriptures, it is always us that is in the wrong. It is always us that is lacking in understanding. And God will help us understand and develop right-thinking. But only if we remain humble and obedient.

Steven, Thank you for setting the proper tone for addressing Budgie’s questions. She deserves compassion and wise counsel, as we all need from time to time when we are confused or upset.

God Bless!