Using condoms versus NFP

[RCMom]

Obviously this is my first post, so go easy on me please

I found this website by googling NFP. I have read several of the previous threads on NFP and have learned a ton of information.

I need some help convincing a very good friend of mine (who toes the Catholic line in nearly every other way) that using condoms is not ok. She is convinced that condoms are an acceptable form of contraception because there is no chance for abortion if fertilization is prevented. I have tried to muddle my way through HV and come up with some responses for her, but I just get frustrated. I try to explain how the concept of contraception is wrong, but I just end up making a mess of things. She already has 3 children and is an amazing mother. She states that God is in control of her life, and she submits willingly to him. However, when I try to point out that she is not submitting in this area, she states that God could make the condom break if he wants her to conceive. I feel like I am being called to help her see the light, so to speak, but I am not sure how to proceed. Whenever the topic comes up, I pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit. But I either say something that comes out all wrong, or I keep silent. Our friendship means the world to me. She is the first person I have been able to form a relationship with who shares so many of my beliefs and I do nto want to jeopardize that. Does anyone have any advice???

 

[Pug]

Advice, sure! And welcome to the forum.

The best article on the web that I’ve come across is by Janet Smith. She does lots of talks on contraception, NFP, etc., and covers the Catholic position very well. Here is a link to her Contraception, Why Not article. My advice, read it yourself, and if you can ever sneak it in, get your friend to read it.

If she is a a good friend, she can listen to what really matters to you. Also, if you are a good friend, you will be truthful to her, and not fail to help her on the right path if you can be helpful.

Maybe you have been silent because the time has not been right, or you did not know enough yet. I think the time will be right at some point, however. I don’t think it can be put off forever, becuase the topic has been coming up. But once you do a good job of covering it, it won’t help to keep nagging. Use your good judgment.

Is there a particular reason why you think it will hurt your friendship?

 

[Island_Oak]

RCMom:

Obviously this is my first post, so go easy on me please

I found this website by googling NFP. I have read several of the previous threads on NFP and have learned a ton of information.

I need some help convincing a very good friend of mine (who toes the Catholic line in nearly every other way) that using condoms is not ok. She is convinced that condoms are an acceptable form of contraception because…

Welcome to the Forums!!!

Just a question…is your friend asking for your insight, reasoning, teaching on this most private of issues? If not…zip lock those lips, sweetie. That’s a mine field you don’t walk into without an invitation. Even if she opened the door to this coversation, it is ultimately something only she and her husband must agree upon and practice together–no matter what you or anyone else believes.

 

[Scott_Waddell]

Read Kimberly Hahn’s book Life-Giving Love.

Just a question…is your friend asking for your insight, reasoning, teaching on this most private of issues? If not…zip lock those lips, sweetie. That’s a mine field you don’t walk into without an invitation. Even if she opened the door to this coversation, it is ultimately something only she and her husband must agree upon and practice together–no matter what you or anyone else believes.

Not true. There is an obligation to both explain and defend Catholic teaching and to admonish.

Scott

 

[CatholicMatthew]

RCMom:

She states that God is in control of her life, and she submits willingly to him. However, when I try to point out that she is not submitting in this area, she states that God could make the condom break if he wants her to conceive.

Just an FYI to use as you see fit. God gives us free will and she is choosing not to maintain the integrity of the marital act which is what the teaching is. She disrespects the way God designed her body and her husbands. per se destinatus. (humane vitae) as it is ordered.

Under the Mercy,

Matthew Sauer

 

[Fashina86]

Welcome… read and enjoy! Know that it is wrong… and don’t push the issue… people tend to ignore us if we push issues and press our beliefs on them… Good Luck… I will send a prayer your way!

God Bless–JMJ
Laura

 

[Scott_Waddell]

Fashina86:

Welcome… read and enjoy! Know that it is wrong… and don’t push the issue… people tend to ignore us if we push issues and press our beliefs on them… Good Luck… I will send a prayer your way!

God Bless–JMJ
Laura

I hope no one is taking the obligation to defend Catholic teaching as a obligation to be obnoxious. Rcmom, your are not trying to win an argument, you are trying out of love to warn a couple that they are walking over a cliff.
Perhaps try this: get a good book on the subject, (I like K. Hahn’s book because it is down-to-earth and very readable) give it to her saying you have not been very good at explaining why condoms are not ok, but read this. Then say that you will say no more on the subject, but if she wants any more information or help you will give it.

Scott

 

[RCMom]

Thank you all for your responses and your warm welcome!

I have watched & listened to Janet Smith’s Contraception, Why Not? speech…it was on EWTN a few weeks ago and that is partly what precipitated our discussion on fertility/contraception. I have not read Kimberly Hahn’s book *Life-Giving Love, *but it has come up several times now, so I think I will be looking for a copy of it.

Island Oak - your comments are partially why I have been keeping silent on this issue. On the one hand, I do think it is a personal issue between my friend and her spouse. But on the other hand, like Scott pointed out, I feel like I DO have an obligation to teach her what is right. (I have another whole post on this topic). And as he said in a later post, I am not doing this to win an arguement. I am doing it to help her soul.

OK - so I’ll post my second question here. What exactly is our obligation regarding Church teachings and people who are in conflict with them? And is it a sin on our part if we chose NOT to share our faith (or maybe a better wording is if we purposely do not share our faith). For instance, I believe that it is my obligation as a parent to teach and instill the faith in my children. If I do not teach my son that premarital sex is wrong, and he does it, than who is at fault? If he doesn’t know any better because his parents did not teach him that is IT wrong and WHY is it wrong, than isn’t it MY sin? (Would that be a sin of omission??) ANd how far does that obligation extend? To my spouse? To my close family and friends? To anyone I meet? What if an unmarried friend (or anyone friend for that matter) comes up to me and says she is pregnant and wants an abortion. What is my obligation? To simply tell her that I don’t agree with abortion? To try and convince her to make another decision? What if I simply say nothing on the basis that it is her life and her decision to make? Does it make a difference if she is Catholic (and therefore we can assume she knows abortion is wrong?) or not? Maybe abortion is a bad example because another human being is involved. What about something not as “bad” as murder, but still sinful?

I know this is loaded…but this is a topic that has been bothering me alot lately. Obviously I am not righteous enough to think that everything in my life is perfect and according to how God wants me to live, and it is my duty to point out everyone else’s wrongdoings. But where do I draw the line?

Thanks for your comments and help

 

[puzzleannie]

best advice for you and your friend is to volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center and get educated on how many abortions are due to contraceptive failure (more than half) and how many due specifically to condom failure (a lot, especially by the one-night-stand crowd).

 

[RCMom]

best advice for you and your friend is to volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center and get educated on how many abortions are due to contraceptive failure (more than half) and how many due specifically to condom failure (a lot, especially by the one-night-stand crowd).

I don’t think this would work in this case. She is VERY prolife and would never consider an abortion. If their condom failed, she would see that as God’s will and accept the pregnancy.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

hi rcmom,

i think the reason that people, and especially Catholics, who don’t accept the teachings on contraception, don’t understand the meaning of their own sexuality and how sex between a man and woman relates to the mystery of God. i discovered this by reading JPII’s teaching “the theology of the body.” unfortunately, that teaching is far too intricate to discuss over coffee. but if your friend were exposed to this teaching, she would bring herself closer to God and stopping using condoms. it is that good.

christopher west, the theology of the body ‘guru’, has done a lot to make TOTB accessible to the masses. since you want to evangelize your friend on this matter, i think his video tape set is the way to go. it is two tapes, 4 sessions, geared for discussion groups. if you can get your hands on those, tell your friend that ‘you’ve discovered this ‘new’ teaching from the pope’ and invite her to watch them with you. in the fourth session, after you have become familiar with what it means to love your spouse and God in the context of marriage, he addresses this issue effectively.

i’d try to relate that here, but i’d only mess it up. but basically the pope teaches that the problem that you are trying to help her with is a lack of a deep understanding of the Trinity. once oriented properly, a person cannot help but embrace HV.

those tapes are costly ($40). here’s a radical idea. approach your pastor with your dilemma (which is not uncommon.) tell him to buy the tapes for parishioners to check out and use at home. then you get to be the first to check them out. if he doesn’t go for that (and you like my idea and have money) buy them, use them, and donate them to the parish so others can see them. just an idea, but still, i’m a fan of west and more so of the pope.

 

[1ke]

RCMom:

Obviously this is my first post, so go easy on me please

I found this website by googling NFP. I have read several of the previous threads on NFP and have learned a ton of information.

I need some help convincing a very good friend of mine (who toes the Catholic line in nearly every other way) that using condoms is not ok. She is convinced that condoms are an acceptable form of contraception because there is no chance for abortion if fertilization is prevented. I have tried to muddle my way through HV and come up with some responses for her, but I just get frustrated. I try to explain how the concept of contraception is wrong, but I just end up making a mess of things. She already has 3 children and is an amazing mother. She states that God is in control of her life, and she submits willingly to him. However, when I try to point out that she is not submitting in this area, she states that God could make the condom break if he wants her to conceive. I feel like I am being called to help her see the light, so to speak, but I am not sure how to proceed. Whenever the topic comes up, I pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit. But I either say something that comes out all wrong, or I keep silent. Our friendship means the world to me. She is the first person I have been able to form a relationship with who shares so many of my beliefs and I do nto want to jeopardize that. Does anyone have any advice???

HV and the Catechism are crystal clear on this topic-- contraception is never permitted in any form. It might be helpful to know what argument your friend proposes as evidence that condoms are OK with the Church.

I’m not talking about why they are less bad than some other method but why she thinks they are allowed. What underlying principle does she appeal to?

 

[DVIN_CKS]

Something else that might be helpful is to ask her if she’s ever even considered NFP or read anything about it. A lot of times NFP is never mentioned and if it is people immediately role their eyes and discount it right off the bat.

What she must realize is that her whole outlook on marital sex has to change. She needs first to understand how the Church approaches the marital act as being sacred and involving God. Until she starts to view things from a more “sacramental” point of view, any arguments against contraception will be lost.