"valid" consecration

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timothe

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I am a former altar boy.

We receive the eucharist under both species.

Normally, prior to the consecration, the priest pours a drop of water into the wine caraffe, then pours a portion from the caraffe into the chalice.

Recnetly, I have noticed that the priest poured a drop of water into the chalice but not into the caraffe.

Is this a “valid” consecration?
 
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timothe:
I am a former altar boy.

We receive the eucharist under both species.

Normally, prior to the consecration, the priest pours a drop of water into the wine caraffe, then pours a portion from the caraffe into the chalice.

Recnetly, I have noticed that the priest poured a drop of water into the chalice but not into the caraffe.

Is this a “valid” consecration?
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Hmmm… All I can find on this is Canon 924, sections 1 & 3 which seem to indicate that a drop of water is required for consecration, but does not specify whether this regards all wine to be consecrated, or just some of the wine (ie, chalice and caraffe, or just chalice).

At first glance, I woudl say that the canon seems to suggest that a drop of water is to be added to all wine to be consecrated, but, at the same time, I remember being told that the adding of the small amount of water is only required of the celebrant’s chalice, and is not necessary for the other wine present – this was told to me by a somewhat more “relaxed” liturgist though, so I am hesitant to trust it without some other source citations.

Also - there is the additional question of licitity vs. validity – is the adding of water a licit (lawful) action, but not necessarily a validating action?

Does anyone else have a better understanding of this?

+veritas+
 
According to St. Thomas Aquinas:
Cyprian says (Ep. lxiii): “If any of our predecessors, out of ignorance or simplicity, has not kept this usage,” i.e. of mixing water with the wine, “one may pardon his simplicity”; which would not be the case if water were essential to the sacrament, as the wine or the bread. Therefore the mingling of water with the wine is not essential to the sacrament. (*Summa Theologica, *III, 74, 7)
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timothe:
I am a former altar boy.

We receive the eucharist under both species.

Normally, prior to the consecration, the priest pours a drop of water into the wine caraffe, then pours a portion from the caraffe into the chalice.

Recnetly, I have noticed that the priest poured a drop of water into the chalice but not into the caraffe.

Is this a “valid” consecration?
Click to expand...
Yes, the Consecration would be valid. It should however be added to all the wine before it is poured.
 
Supposedly Jesus provides over all the Sacrements to make sure their valid but sometimes I have doubts. I know a priest that doesnt use any water at all.

If it was me, Id use quite alot of water. I dont like to drink alot of wine and I dont like alchohol. It was only used in Olden times to kill the bacteria in the water.
 
The answer is yes, it is valid (only one drop is required).

Bill – you can’t use a lot of water. If you use too much the wine ceases to be wine and becomes invalid matter for the consecration. The rubrics call for a drop, and that’s what should be used – we dont’ get to change the Mass to suit our personal preferences.

Deacon Ed
 
Thanks to all who replied to my question.

Regarding Thomas Aquinas in the Summa, “Therefore the mingling of water with the wine is not essential to the sacrament.”

St Thomas does not speak “ex cathedra”. So, this is a nice
theory, but unless the pope promulgates it, it is not a matter
of “faith and mortals”.

I like the liturgy to be “similar” no matter were I go in the U.S.
I do not understand how something as simple as putting one
drop of water into a wine caraffe or a chalice can be so difficult.

Tim
 
I think its absoloutley nessecary to use both water and wine.

At the wedding, Jesus changed the water into wine…

Than at his crucifixtion, his side was pierced, both water and blood came out.

It is still socialy acceptable, 2000 years later to mix water and wine to make wine more palatable.
 
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