Valid matter in the early church?

[Justin1224]

Something I thought of recently, what would have been used for the celebration of mass in the early church? When was the the eucharistic bread that we use now developed?

 

[karennascargo3]

I would assume that, since most of the earliest followers were Jewish, it would have been unleavened bread (which is what was the bread served during most holy celebrations). Also, they most likely would have followed up using the bread Jesus broke at the ‘Last Supper’, which would also have been unleavened bread, since it is believed to have been the passover meal.

 

[choy]

not an expert on this but i heard that the early Church actually used leavened bread

remember Christ also broke bread on the Road to Emmaus, and this was already after the passover. so they probably have leavened bread at that time

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Unleavened bread then would be post like pita or flatbread that we can get now. since Jesus “broke the bread” at the last supper it seems that it was a larger piece that would be normally served at a meal. What I don’t know is the evelution of that to the small hosts we have today. I assume that the hand-made bread was gradually made smaller (bite sized) as time went on. The tiny, flat hosts we have today are all machine made, so they didn’t come about until recently.

 

[choy]

Unleavened bread then would be post like pita or flatbread that we can get now. since Jesus “broke the bread” at the last supper it seems that it was a larger piece that would be normally served at a meal. What I don’t know is the evelution of that to the small hosts we have today. I assume that the hand-made bread was gradually made smaller (bite sized) as time went on. The tiny, flat hosts we have today are all machine made, so they didn’t come about until recently.

i thought the bread must be the “work of human hands”

i know a convent in the Philippines where nuns make the hosts. they cut it from a sheet. the leftover pieces are then baked into tasty cookies they sell. everything made by hand

 

[johnnykins]

Any wheat bread is “valid” matter. In the Latin Rite only unleavened bread is “licit” In the eastern rites only leavened bread is licit. Liceity is simply matter of what the rules are - validity goes to whether the sacrament was confected.

 

[Moscati]

i thought the bread must be the “work of human hands”

i know a convent in the Philippines where nuns make the hosts. they cut it from a sheet. the leftover pieces are then baked into tasty cookies they sell. everything made by hand

Are these cookies sometimes called “angel cookies”? I may have finally just figured something out.

Someone mentioned something like this to Fr. during RCIA. One of the cradle Catholics, who had never been confirmed, and was attending classes for that–Fr. was talking about the Eucharist, and she asked him about cookies. (Fr. is from Africa.) He didn’t understand, and no one else had any idea what she meant. Her family is from the Philippines. This must be it! Thank you.

 

[choy]

Are these cookies sometimes called “angel cookies”? I may have finally just figured something out.

Someone mentioned something like this to Fr. during RCIA. One of the cradle Catholics, who had never been confirmed, and was attending classes for that–Fr. was talking about the Eucharist, and she asked him about cookies. (Fr. is from Africa.) He didn’t understand, and no one else had any idea what she meant. Her family is from the Philippines. This must be it! Thank you.

i believe the one i buy is called Cloister Cookies, but there’s another article i read that it did call them Angel Cookies. and there’s even a tagline on the label that says, “made by praying hands” and is made by what is known locally as the Pink Sisters (they wear pink habits)

here’s a short article i found on the internet about them…
loqal.ph/travel-and-outdoors/2010/03/08/the-pink-sisters%E2%80%99-sanctuary-of-silence/

i don’t know how many archdioceses they supply with the hosts, all i know is that they make them and they are hand made

 

[japhy]

remember Christ also broke bread on the Road to Emmaus, and this was already after the passover. so they probably have leavened bread at that time

The Passover is immediately followed by the “Feast of Unleavened Bread” which lasts a week. “For seven days no leaven shall be found in your houses; for if any one eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is a sojourner or a native of the land.” (Ex. 12:19)

 

[japhy]

i thought the bread must be the “work of human hands”

Not necessarily, although I suppose that would be good (since it would correspond better to the lex orandi of the Ordinary Form).

 

[Evan]

i thought the bread must be the “work of human hands”

All bread is the work of human hands. The work begins after God has formed the wheat.

If you want it to be only the work of “hands” then your hand must grind the wheat into flour without use of a tool such as a stone. You must get water from the well without the aid of a bowl. You must flatten the bread without a rolling pin, just use your hands. You must bake the bread without a fire or oven. Just heat it in your hands.

See. The work of human hands may be the creating a machine that can roll the flour very thin. Or the placing the flour in the machine. etc.

 

[choy]

All bread is the work of human hands. The work begins after God has formed the wheat.

If you want it to be only the work of “hands” then your hand must grind the wheat into flour without use of a tool such as a stone. You must get water from the well without the aid of a bowl. You must flatten the bread without a rolling pin, just use your hands. You must bake the bread without a fire or oven. Just heat it in your hands.

See. The work of human hands may be the creating a machine that can roll the flour very thin. Or the placing the flour in the machine. etc.

of course it means you can use tools that are powered by human hands
a manual grinder as opposed to a purely mechanical one

anyway, like i said, i THOUGHT it meant that

 

[MarkThompson]

All bread is the work of human hands. The work begins after God has formed the wheat.

If you want it to be only the work of “hands” then your hand must grind the wheat into flour without use of a tool such as a stone. You must get water from the well without the aid of a bowl. You must flatten the bread without a rolling pin, just use your hands. You must bake the bread without a fire or oven. Just heat it in your hands.

See. The work of human hands may be the creating a machine that can roll the flour very thin. Or the placing the flour in the machine. etc.

This doesn’t sound particularly right to me. This is why we have the expressions “hand-made” versus “machine-made,” and the like.

That said, I actually don’t see anything in the GIRM or canon law that requires the bread to be “work of human hands.” This GIRM simply states:
320. The bread for celebrating the Eucharist must be made only from wheat, must be recently baked, and, according to the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, must be unleavened.
And the only relevant provisions I can find in the canon law are:
Can. 924 §1. The most holy eucharistic sacrifice must be offered with bread and with wine in which a little water must be mixed.
§2. The bread must be only wheat and recently made so that there is no danger of spoiling.
. . .
Can. 926 According to the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, the priest is to use unleavened bread in the eucharistic celebration whenever he offers it.
Is there anything else out there that requires (or even suggests, other than the offertory prayer) that “human hands have made” the bread?