Vatican Archbishop Criticizes Notre Dame for Inviting Pro-Abortion Obama

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elts1956 said:
I don’t know the details of what would incur his official excommunication. I believe by his actions, he has already excommunicated himself. I am afraid if “I” had the power, heads would roll.

I am guessing that’s why God pointed me in the direction of teaching little ones, 3-6. I could intimidate them with no general backlash. 😉
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I disagree. While I believe that what Father Jenkins did is not consistent with the Faith, I do not believe that they rise the level of the gravest of canonical penalties, excommunication. Clearly, it has brought great scandal on the Church, but that is not, I believe, in and of itself, a denial of the faith or a resistance against the grave authority of superiors which is inherent in a person who deserves excommunication. That is not to say those things have not been done, it is the the degree of those violations that I do not believe rises to the point of excommunication. But then, I will also say that I do not know all of the facts.

Excommunication is not a penalty that should be bandied about casually. Let us not forget that excommunication comes as close to judging the state of a person’s soul as one can come. Thus one must be very careful and prayerful before suggesting or supporting excommunication.
 
Good for the Vatican! 👍 Now maybe Notre Dame will listen! Somehow, though, I doubt it. :(:mad:
 
rpp said:
I disagree. While I believe that what Father Jenkins did is not consistent with the Faith, I do not believe that they rise the level of the gravest of canonical penalties, excommunication. Clearly, it has brought great scandal on the Church, but that is not, I believe, in and of itself, a denial of the faith or a resistance against the grave authority of superiors which is inherent in a person who deserves excommunication. That is not to say those things have not been done, it is the the degree of those violations that I do not believe rises to the point of excommunication. But then, I will also say that I do not know all of the facts.

Excommunication is not a penalty that should be bandied about casually. Let us not forget that excommunication comes as close to judging the state of a person’s soul as one can come. Thus one must be very careful and prayerful before suggesting or supporting excommunication.
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I wasn’t the one asking about excommunication. Check the other posts. As for my opinion, I don’t really care what they do with Jenkins as long as they get him out of NotreDame.
 
elts1956 said:
I wasn’t the one asking about excommunication. Check the other posts. ** As for my opinion, I don’t really care what they do with Jenkins as long as they get him out of NotreDame.**
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Now that I can agree with! 👍
 
rpp said:
I disagree. While I believe that what Father Jenkins did is not consistent with the Faith, I do not believe that they rise the level of the gravest of canonical penalties, excommunication. Clearly, it has brought great scandal on the Church, but that is not, I believe, in and of itself, a denial of the faith or a resistance against the grave authority of superiors which is inherent in a person who deserves excommunication. That is not to say those things have not been done, it is the the degree of those violations that I do not believe rises to the point of excommunication. But then, I will also say that I do not know all of the facts.

Excommunication is not a penalty that should be bandied about casually. Let us not forget that excommunication comes as close to judging the state of a person’s soul as one can come. Thus one must be very careful and prayerful before suggesting or supporting excommunication.
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I remeber a case in south america where everyone involved in the abortion of a girls baby from doctors to parent was excommunicated. The girl was a very young 9 - 10 year old girl who was raped by her step father. The abortion was carried out because she was physically incapable of carrying the children and giving birth without killing herself and possibly the children. If they can excommunicate a doctor and parent for making the only sane decision in the interests of the child. They can excommunicate anyone…
 
Abbadon said:
I remeber a case in south america where everyone involved in the abortion of a girls baby from doctors to parent was excommunicated. The girl was a very young 9 - 10 year old girl who was raped by her step father. The abortion was carried out because she was physically incapable of carrying the children and giving birth without killing herself and possibly the children. If they can excommunicate a doctor and parent for making the only sane decision in the interests of the child. They can excommunicate anyone…
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This is not an abortion.
 
rpp said:
This is not an abortion.
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What was it then? Two humans were killed. The stories around this episode are very confusing. But I understand the little girl was in no danger of dying. Of course she would not have been able to go through natural child birth. They were planning a caesarian at a point in gestation when all three could have survived.
 
elts1956 said:
What was it then? Two humans were killed. The stories around this episode are very confusing. But I understand the little girl was in no danger of dying. Of course she would not have been able to go through natural child birth. They were planning a caesarian at a point in gestation when all three could have survived.
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Whoops. My mistake. That most certainly was an abortion and the people were rightly excommunicated.

However, that does does not apply in the case of the Notre Dame commencement. Obama is not Catholic and therefore cannot be excommunicated. The president of Notre Dame is not participating in procuring abortions and, therefore, has not violated that aspect of Church teaching or canon law.

Let’s keep this on topic and not being unrelated events into this.
 
:rolleyes:
rpp said:
Whoops. My mistake. That most certainly was an abortion and the people were rightly excommunicated.

However, that does does not apply in the case of the Notre Dame commencement. Obama is not Catholic and therefore cannot be excommunicated. The president of Notre Dame is not participating in procuring abortions and, therefore, has not violated that aspect of Church teaching or canon law.

Let’s keep this on topic and not being unrelated events into this.
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Fine with me. However, I did see that Jenkins is on the board of “an” abortion organization. Did you see that. Of course it could be something like the USSCB donating to Acorn. He/they just didn’t “know” what the organizations were doing.
 
elts1956 said:
:rolleyes:

Fine with me. However, I did see that Jenkins is on the board of “an” abortion organization. Did you see that. Of course it could be something like the USSCB donating to Acorn. He/they just didn’t “know” what the organizations were doing.
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Ya! Just like Jenkins probably has no idea that Obama is militantly pro-abortion. :rolleyes:
 
elts1956 said:
What a sad legacy to end with. I very much regret I was unaware of ND’s slide until you posted the link. Unbelievable!!!
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It began with the “Land O’Lakes” declaration wherein ND was pivotal in trying to declare Catholic Universities independent of the Church. The Vatican document “Ex Corde Ecclesiae” was intended to correct that, but it has been widely ignored in Catholic academic circles.
 
JimG said:
It began with the “Land O’Lakes” declaration wherein ND was pivotal in trying to declare Catholic Universities independent of the Church. The Vatican document “Ex Corde Ecclesiae” was intended to correct that, but it has been widely ignored in Catholic academic circles.
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My biggest and continues to be my unanswered question is “How do they get away with this”? I remember that in Catholic Grade school one could be popped on the side of the head, or FACE THE RULER if any disagreement was given during Catechism, or ANY time. Those sisters had Authority with a capital A on their side. Was it just the laity who could be given dire punishment in those instances? Sad, sad, (and exasperating), leanings toward secularism couldn’t have been nipped in the bud. Wasn’t the magisterium aware of what was happening?

It looks as though those clergy, who want to, can ignore anything from Rome they with to ignore.
 
elts1956 said:
My biggest and continues to be my unanswered question is “How do they get away with this”? I remember that in Catholic Grade school one could be popped on the side of the head, or FACE THE RULER if any disagreement was given during Catechism, or ANY time. Those sisters had Authority with a capital A on their side. Was it just the laity who could be given dire punishment in those instances? Sad, sad, (and exasperating), leanings toward secularism couldn’t have been nipped in the bud. Wasn’t the magisterium aware of what was happening?

It looks as though those clergy, who want to, can ignore anything from Rome they with to ignore.
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It didn’t get this way overnight. Liberal politics and secular society overflows into the Church, whose members are not immune from secular influences.

I recall the giddiness that seemed to accompany sessions of Vatican II. The Council was not so radical, but some of those attending it thought they had suddenly received carte blanche to grab the steering wheel of the Church and drive off wildly in all directions.

Somehow, a huge number of priests and seminarians got the idea that very soon they would be able to marry and still be priests. Well, that didn’t come about. So they left–thousands of them, some whom I knew personally. I never fail to congratulate the priests in that age group who remained true and faithful while being surrounded by so many crazy influences.

Some seminaries got the idea that gay men should be admitted. That let to some serious aberrations and abuses.

Catechists got the idea that they shouldn’t be so strict, like those nuns of yesteryear. That they should emphasize peace, love, and harmony, and downplay doctrinal truth. The result was a generation or two of uncatechized Catholics unable to tell the difference between limbo an purgatory or between virtue and vice, or between truth and error.

So it took us a few decades to get to this point. But it is being reversed. I’ve seen the reversal starting–it’s real and it will continue. The pendulum always swings back.
 
I just don’t understand how ND can get away with being disobedient time and time again against the church and be considered a Catholic University. Can’t the vatican take away their status as a Catholic university or do something about this?
 
JimG said:
It didn’t get this way overnight. Liberal politics and secular society overflows into the Church, whose members are not immune from secular influences.

I recall the giddiness that seemed to accompany sessions of Vatican II. The Council was not so radical, but some of those attending it thought they had suddenly received carte blanche to grab the steering wheel of the Church and drive off wildly in all directions.

Somehow, a huge number of priests and seminarians got the idea that very soon they would be able to marry and still be priests. Well, that didn’t come about. So they left–thousands of them, some whom I knew personally. I never fail to congratulate the priests in that age group who remained true and faithful while being surrounded by so many crazy influences.

Some seminaries got the idea that gay men should be admitted. That let to some serious aberrations and abuses.

Catechists got the idea that they shouldn’t be so strict, like those nuns of yesteryear. That they should emphasize peace, love, and harmony, and downplay doctrinal truth. The result was a generation or two of uncatechized Catholics unable to tell the difference between limbo an purgatory or between virtue and vice, or between truth and error.

So it took us a few decades to get to this point. But it is being reversed. I’ve seen the reversal starting–it’s real and it will continue. The pendulum always swings back.
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I think I am the most angry with myself for having lived in la la land for so many years. I was never confronted by abuses of liturgy etc., so I lived in my own bubble.
 
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