E
ERose
Guest
Do Eastern Catholics respect and accept the teachings of Vatican II? If not then why?
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P
Peter_J
Guest
ERose,
I think this question might be more well-received by Easter Catholics if you first explain where it is coming from.
H
Hesychios
Guest
Such a highly generalized question. 
Perhaps I should let eastern Catholics answer this, I am an outsider, but I have some thoughts about it.
I personally doubt that the eastern Catholic community is any more homogeneous than any other aspect of the Catholic church. So generalities are probably out of the question.
From what I have learned over time though, is that the Vatican Council II has been good for the non-Latin Catholics overall. There is a much greater recognition of their traditions, the completed separate Code of Canons and the Sui Iuris designation was a concept that came to fruition after the Council.
Eastern Catholic prelates were not only present at the Council, but actually regarded with some honor and respect, they were listened to with some interest. Cardinal Slipyj was famously released from the Gulags during that time before the end of the Council, the publicity and abundant joy shared by everyone did not hurt the eastern Catholic cause in the least.
Various eastern Catholic liturgies (as well as the Mozarabic and Ambrosian) were held during the Council for the benefit of all the participants, and they undoubtedly had an influence on the Fathers thinking about the liturgy, reforms and relations with sister churches outside of the communion.
*
Michael*
Perhaps I should let eastern Catholics answer this, I am an outsider, but I have some thoughts about it.
I personally doubt that the eastern Catholic community is any more homogeneous than any other aspect of the Catholic church. So generalities are probably out of the question.
From what I have learned over time though, is that the Vatican Council II has been good for the non-Latin Catholics overall. There is a much greater recognition of their traditions, the completed separate Code of Canons and the Sui Iuris designation was a concept that came to fruition after the Council.
Eastern Catholic prelates were not only present at the Council, but actually regarded with some honor and respect, they were listened to with some interest. Cardinal Slipyj was famously released from the Gulags during that time before the end of the Council, the publicity and abundant joy shared by everyone did not hurt the eastern Catholic cause in the least.
Various eastern Catholic liturgies (as well as the Mozarabic and Ambrosian) were held during the Council for the benefit of all the participants, and they undoubtedly had an influence on the Fathers thinking about the liturgy, reforms and relations with sister churches outside of the communion.
*
Michael*
B
bpbasilphx
Guest
An Eastern Catholic priest told me that this is the first Council since the Seventh in 787 or so at which the Eastern Catholic Churches were properly represented.
My understanding is that there were very few, if any, at Trent and Vatican I.
My understanding is that there were very few, if any, at Trent and Vatican I.
P
puzzleannie
Guest
if you are asking do they accept as doctrinal statements the documents of V2 the answer is yes, because their leaders are in full communion with the Catholic Church and fully loyal to the Pope and are in fact, share in the magesterial teaching authority o of the Church which issued these decrees.
E
ERose
Guest
Hi Peter,
The reason for this quote is that in another thread there seemed to be some tension by some of the Eastern Catholics involved in the thread concerning the Latin Rite Church and its preceived attempt to Latinize the other rites.
Also there were claims that would indicate some differences in doctrinal teaching to go along with the differences in Canon Law, Liturgical Practices, etc. that are under the authority of the Church. Such as the filoque clause, purgatory, and immaculate conception of Mary that were being questioned by some of the Eastern Catholics on the thread.
What I am doing here is a fact finding mission to understand the relationship between the rites so that is reason why I am answering these questions.
My goal is not to bash Eastern Catholic rites. My goal is simply to better understand the relationship.
Hopefully my questions do not offend anyone. Peace be with you.
As such there were some teaching that came from Vatican II that
L
LakaYaRabb
Guest
Catholicism does not merely mean submission to the Pope. Catholics have to end thier obsession with the Papacy and Papal submission.
The various Eastern Catholic Churches have a Communion of Love with the Roman Church.
The Faith is the same for all Catholics. Our lived experienece in each Church is differnet and that is obvious from our varioes traditions and spirituality.
The Eastern Catholic Churches have a Communion of Love with the Church of Rome.
L
LakaYaRabb
Guest
For a really great explanation, please see the recent address from His Beatitude Gregorios III, Patriarch of Antioch. Here’s an except. The link is at the bottom:
Ecumenical role
The other aspect of the ad extra mission of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church is its role in the ecumenical journey towards Christian unity.
Our Church has always been conscious of this role. The history of our Melkite Greek Catholic Church of Antioch, in full communion for close on three hundred years with the Church of Rome that “presides in love,” has been marked by many vexations. In particular, it has had to live in the catacombs for about one hundred and thirty years. Indeed, we are a Church of martyrs and confessors of the faith, especially in Lebanon and Syria. There are, standing before you, Most Holy Father, descendants of martyrs.
Absolute communion with Rome
These were martyrs for unity, martyrs of communion with Rome, that communion which was, and still is for us, an historic, existential choice for commitment, that is both effectual and emotional, a definitive and irreversible constituent of glory and humility.
Orthodox and Catholic
However, that communion with Rome does not separate us from our Orthodox ecclesial reality. We say this with profound humility, a deep ecumenical awareness and a touch of humour: we are an Orthodox Catholic Church.
Peter III
Nearly nine centuries ago, a Patriarch of Antioch, Peter III, prefigured this role: few are aware of his courageous reaction at the time of the dispute between Patriarch Michael Cerularius and Cardinal Humbert of Silva-Candida, which caused the schism of 1054. His mediatory letter to Patriarch Cerularius closes with a plea, in a very “ecumenical” tone, “With all my strength, I appeal to Your Holiness not to enter upon this business with the spirit of contention. Otherwise, it is to be feared that in wishing to mend the tear you may enlarge it. Think carefully: could not all the current misfortunes, all the troubles which ravage kingdoms, all calamities, plagues and famines that devastate our towns and countryside, all the defeats of our troops, stem from this, I mean this long separation, this misunderstanding of our Church with the Apostolic See? Let the Latins correct their Creed, and I’ll ask for nothing more, even discarding as a matter of indifference the question of unleavened bread.”
Gregorios II
That is the role played by our predecessors, Gregorios II Youssef-Sayyour at the First Vatican Council, and Maximos IV Sayegh at Vatican II, with the pleiad of members of our Hierarchy.
That role is very apparent in several documents and decrees of Vatican II, and in the institutions originating in and promoted by that Council: Episcopal Conferences, the Synod of Bishops, liturgical reform, ecumenism…
Maximos IV at Vatican II
Patriarch Athenagoras, of blessed memory, thanked my predecessor Maximos IV for having spoken in his name at the Council. And Maximos IV replied: “Every time I spoke at the Council, I thought of you.”
Most Holy Father,
The ecumenical role of our Church is founded on this long Antiochian tradition, on our ecclesial experience of communion with the Church of Rome. We feel that it is an imperative duty and an essential part of the reality of our Church that is fully Eastern and in full communion with the See of Peter.
Ecumenical contribution
This role is intended to be a contribution to the ecumenical movement, and to be humbly added to ecumenical efforts in the Roman Dicasteries and in the International Joint Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. Our role is always to make ever present the great Absent One: Orthodoxy.
We are indeed rather the Eastern “enfant terrible” in communion with the Church of Rome. That was the goal of the initiative of the late Archbishop Elias Zoghby in 1996: to be in full communion with the Church of Rome and with Orthodoxy. That may be a dream, an Utopian vision, but it is also a prophetic vision.
The great absentee
We would like to live, in the very heart of the Catholic Church, a life that could be accepted by Orthodoxy. Let us do so, Most Holy Father. That is the key to all real progress along the ecumenical way. Accept us, Holy Father, as we are: Eastern Orthodox, who want to live our full and complete Eastern Orthodox tradition in full communion with Rome. That is the really big challenge for the Catholic-Orthodox dialogue, as has been evident at every stage of the ecumenical dialogue since 1980 and especially at Belgrade and Ravenna.
For all that, Most Holy Father, we need your prayer, your approbation and your blessing.
Gratitude to the Church of Rome
We are deeply grateful to the Church of Rome for the continual support given to our Church to enable it to fulfil its mission ad intra and ad extra. This assistance has been constant throughout the history of our communion with Rome.
The Congregation for Eastern Churches and R.O.A.C.O.
That is especially apparent in the domain of formation of future Patriarchs and Bishops, priests and members of male and female religious congregations: many of whom are present in this room, happy to tell you, Most Holy Father, of their gratitude. This help has been – and still is – at the root of a very great number of projects flourishing in our eparchies, religious orders and institutions, whether in the area of religious education of lay-people, or that of schools or of health. All this has made and continues to make possible our commitment and witness to Jesus and the Gospel.
Its direct instruments have been – and still are – the Congregation for Eastern Churches and the main Catholic aid organisations, especially in Europe and the United States.
Good Shepherd, Father and Head
Most Holy Father,
We are really happy to be able to lay before you, the Good Shepherd, Father and Head, in this speech and visit, the situation of our Church, that you love and which you hold in your heart and at the heart of your care.
We place before you too, all our cares, and projects that are the expression of our pastoral concern, my own and that of my brother Bishops, members of our Holy Synod. Together we try to be, as a hymn of Pentecost says, “a lyre mystically moved by a divine plectrum, ” that of the Holy Spirit.
Invitation to visit us
We invite you to visit us, as pilgrim and pastor, to see close up the life of our Eastern Churches. I would like especially, as President of the Assembly of Catholic Hierarchs in Syria, to invite you to visit the Church of this country, particularly Damascus, place of the conversion and baptism of Saint Paul. We invite you to travel round our Churches also in Lebanon, the Holy Land and Egypt.
Thank you
Most Holy Father,
We would like to thank you for the welcome that has awaited us. We declare with enthusiasm that we shall stay faithful to the faith of our forebears, as watchful guardians, courageous witnesses and bearers of the Gospel message of our Lord Jesus Christ in our Arab world, cradle of Christianity.
Your blessing
We entrust ourselves to your prayers and ask your blessing as Father and Shepherd, but also as friend and elder brother, together with your guidance and advice for the future of our Church. That is the instruction given by Our Lord and Saviour to Peter: “And …thou…, strengthen thy brethren .”
pgc-lb.org/english/News2_Visite_Rome_English.html
Ecumenical role
The other aspect of the ad extra mission of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church is its role in the ecumenical journey towards Christian unity.
Our Church has always been conscious of this role. The history of our Melkite Greek Catholic Church of Antioch, in full communion for close on three hundred years with the Church of Rome that “presides in love,” has been marked by many vexations. In particular, it has had to live in the catacombs for about one hundred and thirty years. Indeed, we are a Church of martyrs and confessors of the faith, especially in Lebanon and Syria. There are, standing before you, Most Holy Father, descendants of martyrs.
Absolute communion with Rome
These were martyrs for unity, martyrs of communion with Rome, that communion which was, and still is for us, an historic, existential choice for commitment, that is both effectual and emotional, a definitive and irreversible constituent of glory and humility.
Orthodox and Catholic
However, that communion with Rome does not separate us from our Orthodox ecclesial reality. We say this with profound humility, a deep ecumenical awareness and a touch of humour: we are an Orthodox Catholic Church.
Peter III
Nearly nine centuries ago, a Patriarch of Antioch, Peter III, prefigured this role: few are aware of his courageous reaction at the time of the dispute between Patriarch Michael Cerularius and Cardinal Humbert of Silva-Candida, which caused the schism of 1054. His mediatory letter to Patriarch Cerularius closes with a plea, in a very “ecumenical” tone, “With all my strength, I appeal to Your Holiness not to enter upon this business with the spirit of contention. Otherwise, it is to be feared that in wishing to mend the tear you may enlarge it. Think carefully: could not all the current misfortunes, all the troubles which ravage kingdoms, all calamities, plagues and famines that devastate our towns and countryside, all the defeats of our troops, stem from this, I mean this long separation, this misunderstanding of our Church with the Apostolic See? Let the Latins correct their Creed, and I’ll ask for nothing more, even discarding as a matter of indifference the question of unleavened bread.”
Gregorios II
That is the role played by our predecessors, Gregorios II Youssef-Sayyour at the First Vatican Council, and Maximos IV Sayegh at Vatican II, with the pleiad of members of our Hierarchy.
That role is very apparent in several documents and decrees of Vatican II, and in the institutions originating in and promoted by that Council: Episcopal Conferences, the Synod of Bishops, liturgical reform, ecumenism…
Maximos IV at Vatican II
Patriarch Athenagoras, of blessed memory, thanked my predecessor Maximos IV for having spoken in his name at the Council. And Maximos IV replied: “Every time I spoke at the Council, I thought of you.”
Most Holy Father,
The ecumenical role of our Church is founded on this long Antiochian tradition, on our ecclesial experience of communion with the Church of Rome. We feel that it is an imperative duty and an essential part of the reality of our Church that is fully Eastern and in full communion with the See of Peter.
Ecumenical contribution
This role is intended to be a contribution to the ecumenical movement, and to be humbly added to ecumenical efforts in the Roman Dicasteries and in the International Joint Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. Our role is always to make ever present the great Absent One: Orthodoxy.
We are indeed rather the Eastern “enfant terrible” in communion with the Church of Rome. That was the goal of the initiative of the late Archbishop Elias Zoghby in 1996: to be in full communion with the Church of Rome and with Orthodoxy. That may be a dream, an Utopian vision, but it is also a prophetic vision.
The great absentee
We would like to live, in the very heart of the Catholic Church, a life that could be accepted by Orthodoxy. Let us do so, Most Holy Father. That is the key to all real progress along the ecumenical way. Accept us, Holy Father, as we are: Eastern Orthodox, who want to live our full and complete Eastern Orthodox tradition in full communion with Rome. That is the really big challenge for the Catholic-Orthodox dialogue, as has been evident at every stage of the ecumenical dialogue since 1980 and especially at Belgrade and Ravenna.
For all that, Most Holy Father, we need your prayer, your approbation and your blessing.
Gratitude to the Church of Rome
We are deeply grateful to the Church of Rome for the continual support given to our Church to enable it to fulfil its mission ad intra and ad extra. This assistance has been constant throughout the history of our communion with Rome.
The Congregation for Eastern Churches and R.O.A.C.O.
That is especially apparent in the domain of formation of future Patriarchs and Bishops, priests and members of male and female religious congregations: many of whom are present in this room, happy to tell you, Most Holy Father, of their gratitude. This help has been – and still is – at the root of a very great number of projects flourishing in our eparchies, religious orders and institutions, whether in the area of religious education of lay-people, or that of schools or of health. All this has made and continues to make possible our commitment and witness to Jesus and the Gospel.
Its direct instruments have been – and still are – the Congregation for Eastern Churches and the main Catholic aid organisations, especially in Europe and the United States.
Good Shepherd, Father and Head
Most Holy Father,
We are really happy to be able to lay before you, the Good Shepherd, Father and Head, in this speech and visit, the situation of our Church, that you love and which you hold in your heart and at the heart of your care.
We place before you too, all our cares, and projects that are the expression of our pastoral concern, my own and that of my brother Bishops, members of our Holy Synod. Together we try to be, as a hymn of Pentecost says, “a lyre mystically moved by a divine plectrum, ” that of the Holy Spirit.
Invitation to visit us
We invite you to visit us, as pilgrim and pastor, to see close up the life of our Eastern Churches. I would like especially, as President of the Assembly of Catholic Hierarchs in Syria, to invite you to visit the Church of this country, particularly Damascus, place of the conversion and baptism of Saint Paul. We invite you to travel round our Churches also in Lebanon, the Holy Land and Egypt.
Thank you
Most Holy Father,
We would like to thank you for the welcome that has awaited us. We declare with enthusiasm that we shall stay faithful to the faith of our forebears, as watchful guardians, courageous witnesses and bearers of the Gospel message of our Lord Jesus Christ in our Arab world, cradle of Christianity.
Your blessing
We entrust ourselves to your prayers and ask your blessing as Father and Shepherd, but also as friend and elder brother, together with your guidance and advice for the future of our Church. That is the instruction given by Our Lord and Saviour to Peter: “And …thou…, strengthen thy brethren .”
- Gregorios III, Patriarch
pgc-lb.org/english/News2_Visite_Rome_English.html
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