'Via Media' : Anglican & Lutheran

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GKC said:
Ecumenical mush. I’m with Lord Carey.

And would that I could forget that hirsute trope. It is a black hole in Anglicanism.

GKC
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As to the mush (although it matters not a fig what I think) I suspect you are in truth correct, even if that does mean agreeing with Lord Carey.
 
GKC said:
Ecumenical mush. I’m with Lord Carey.

And would that I could forget that hirsute trope. It is a black hole in Anglicanism.

GKC
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I hope you will forgive my impertinence re the hairspray. It’s this: those who have biblical or theological grounds for finding women’s ordination impossible are in general keen to point out that this does not imply any demeaning or belittling of women or women’s nature or women’s value; the hairspray trope, however, in my own opinion, sets foot over that line, so that in the usual trenchant but civilised tenor of your writing it jars a little.
 
Picky_Picky said:
I hope you will forgive my impertinence re the hairspray. It’s this: those who have biblical or theological grounds for finding women’s ordination impossible are in general keen to point out that this does not imply any demeaning or belittling of women or women’s nature or women’s value; the hairspray trope, however, in my own opinion, sets foot over that line, so that in the usual trenchant but civilised tenor of your writing it jars a little.
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You are not the first to suggest that to me. Though your suggestion is perhaps more calmly and politely made than most. And I have come to see many of your observations as pertinent and fair (esp. if you are lining up, more or less, with qualifications, with me, natch). Another occasional poster, whom I have known and respected for many many years in venues like this, has chastised me similarly. The extent that this has sunk in , due to my respect for such folk as I mention, is reflected in that I rarely use the the phrase these days, not with anything like my formerly accustomed regularity. Thus far, your and others influence may been noted.

But occasionally it breaks through. And it is, as you might expect, a reflection of my feeling of the sacramental problems it raises, and what they have done to Anglicanism, generally, in 40+ years. Not, that is, a reflection on women’s values, qua women.

Other and perhaps more trenchant observations are possible as the customary expression I make on the subject (the sacramental subject, of course) and I use them. Whether that is proof against precisely the sort of concern you raise is not clear in my mind. But, as I say, you and folk like you have already moderated my tone. But not always, I know.

None the less, your comments are appreciated, noted, and not rejected. Perhaps it will mean that I pause and reflect even more than I do now, in addressing the subject.

GKC
 
Regrettably, the Episcopal Church and the American Catholic Church seem to be adrift in many respects. I believe it is largely a misguided obsession with nondiscrimination, whether by gender or sexual practice, that has driven this. The Episcopal Church’s decision to ordain women has fundamentally changed the “tone” of the Church’s leadership. While the greater focus on “social justice” has been a positive in most respects, the obsessive focus on the Second Great Commandment appears to have warped our view of the First. As an Episcopalian, I have been deeply troubled by this drift away from Catholicity.
 
Cranmer said:
Regrettably, the Episcopal Church and the American Catholic Church seem to be adrift in many respects. I believe it is largely a misguided obsession with nondiscrimination, whether by gender or sexual practice, that has driven this. The Episcopal Church’s decision to ordain women has fundamentally changed the “tone” of the Church’s leadership. While the greater focus on “social justice” has been a positive in most respects, the obsessive focus on the Second Great Commandment appears to have warped our view of the First. As an Episcopalian, I have been deeply troubled by this drift away from Catholicity.
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Similar to one of the reasons why I am no longer ELCA.

Jon
 
Cranmer said:
Regrettably, the Episcopal Church and the American Catholic Church seem to be adrift in many respects. I believe it is largely a misguided obsession with nondiscrimination, whether by gender or sexual practice, that has driven this. The Episcopal Church’s decision to ordain women has fundamentally changed the “tone” of the Church’s leadership. While the greater focus on “social justice” has been a positive in most respects, the obsessive focus on the Second Great Commandment appears to have warped our view of the First. As an Episcopalian, I have been deeply troubled by this drift away from Catholicity.
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I can’t speak as to the American Catholic Church, but I concur with the point, re: TEC.

GKC
 
I have a new appreciation for apostolic succession after reading “Together in Mission and Ministry”.

Even among Lutherans, historic steps to protect it during Nazi / Soviet Union repression meant, at times that AP was broken. In Denmark some Catholic bishops were executed after the Reformation. Luther sent a priest [formerly Roman Catholic] to ordain priests in the Church of Denmark. Apostolic succession was restored in the same century. The intriguing history of Lutherans asking for Anglican bishop/ archbishop to consecrate bishops from the Baltic countries.

The sometimes bloody wars in the Anglican Church/ post Henry; executions of bishops and the Puritan and Presbyterian forces. Anyone familiar with the Church of Scotland?

Also interesting that even in the Church of Sweden [w/ unbroken AS] they deny that it is necessary.
 
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