Vineyard Christian Fellowship-Christian or Cult?

[jlhargus]

Whether Protestants are witnessing to Catholics or the other way around; it’s the same activity.

JL: Yes whether either is WITNESSING to the other it is the same activity and fine. My remark was directed in regards to those groups who object is to specifically TARGET another group.

If you like to image that the relatively small number of Protestants are impacting the Catholic faith, I assure it’s not due to the anti-Catholic activity but a clearly defined rendering of the Gospel that would cause one to take a closer look at the claims made by the Western Catholic church. By his graces, his servant, Nic

JL: I did not say or imagine any small group is having an impact on the Church. I think that is your imagination. How is it the overwhelming majority of Protestants who become Catholic know the scriptures and their old Protestant faith? While the overwhelming majority of Catholics who become a member of one of the thousands of divided Protestant denominations, do not know scripture nor their old Catholic faith.

How can you assure me it’s due to a clearly defined rendering of the Godpel, when sola scriptura that tradition of men, is nothing more than a Tower of Babel scattering people of faith into thousands of groups who go their own way no longer understanding the one faith language, of the same Godpel from the same scriptures.

By the way I came from a non-denominational bible church, I have expirenced that land of endless bable. Non-denominations are non-denominations because they can’t agree with anyone else. Each denomination trying to take members from each other. All claiming to be led by the same Holy Spirit in their thousands of interpretations of the same Gospel, which you claim is so clearly defined and rendererd. Your remarks may sound good to a cradle Catholic not familiar with scripture or Protestantism, but you and I know better.

If that Gospel is so clearly defined and rendered why aren’t they ONE instead of a Tower of Babel, with endless split on split and still continuing to split? How many groups has your sola scriptura clearly defined Godpel united? I can’t think of one. How many has it divided?

Please tell me which of those many denominations or so called non-denominations do you belong? Which group was it a split from?

 

[jlhargus]

JL: Yes whether either is WITNESSING to the other it is the same activity and fine. My remark was directed in regards to those groups who object is to specifically TARGET another group. It’s also another thing when the truth is distorted.

JL: I did not say or imagine any small group is having an impact on the Church. I think that is your imagination. How is it the overwhelming majority of Protestants who become Catholic know the scriptures and their old Protestant faith? While the overwhelming majority of Catholics who become a member of one of the thousands of divided Protestant denominations, do not know scripture nor their old Catholic faith.

How can you assure me it’s due to a clearly defined rendering of the Godpel, when sola scriptura that tradition of men, is nothing more than a Tower of Babel scattering people of faith into thousands of groups who go their own way no longer understanding the one faith language, of the same Godpel from the same scriptures.

By the way I came from a non-denominational bible church, I have expirenced that land of endless bable. Non-denominations are non-denominations because they can’t agree with anyone else. Each denomination trying to take members from each other. All claiming to be led by the same Holy Spirit in their thousands of interpretations of the same Gospel, which you claim is so clearly defined and rendererd. Your remarks may sound good to a cradle Catholic not familiar with scripture or Protestantism, but you and I know better.

If that Gospel is so clearly defined and rendered why aren’t they ONE instead of a Tower of Babel, with endless split on split and still continuing to split? How many groups has your sola scriptura clearly defined Godpel united? I can’t think of one. How many has it divided?

Please tell me which of those many denominations or so called non-denominations do you belong? Which group was it a split from?

 

[jlhargus]

Regarding the guy whose wife was “stalked” for leaving the church, I am quite shocked to hear this as I’ve never heard of anything like that happening in a Vineyard church before, most Vineyard churches don’t even have a formal membership at all, although because each church is pretty much self governing you might get one now and then going off the rails a bit. Please don’t judge all Vineyards because of one or two bad apples, and I promise not to judge all Catholic priests because a few have been exposed as pedophiles, we need to give each other the benefit of the doubt and deal on a case by case basis. QUOTE]

Thank you and I promise not to judge all CC or Vineyard pastors for a few bad apples who have been accused of pedophilia.

 

[Nic2009]

JL: How is it the overwhelming majority of Protestants who become Catholic know the scriptures and their old Protestant faith?

That may happen on occasion and if you prefer to think that convert Catholics know the Scriptures most of the time, then it likewise reasonable to presume it is because the Protestant Churches apparently succeed where the the Catholic Church continues to fail in this area. I know plenty of cradle Catholics and even Catholic Seminarians that tell me, ‘Hey I am no Protestant, I don’t know chapter and verse and Scriptures like that’.(sic)

While the overwhelming majority of Catholics who become a member of one of the thousands of divided Protestant denominations, do not know scripture nor their old Catholic faith.

Again you are illustrating your own Church failings here; after all they were Roman Catholic to begin with.

How can you assure me it’s due to a clearly defined rendering of the Godpel, when sola scriptura that tradition of men,

Well sola scriptura is a praxis of many of the ECF’s not a traditon of men as the Pharisees were practicing; Corbin rule… BTW: The Catholic Church has little room to talk in this area.

is nothing more than a Tower of Babel scattering people of faith into thousands of groups who go their own way no longer understanding the one faith language, of the same Godpel from the same scriptures.

Sure people have been led into various divisions, Scriptures says:

**1Corinthians 11:19

For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.**

By the way I came from a non-denominational bible church,

BTW: I come from the Roman Catholicism.

I have expirenced that land of endless bable.

How unfortunate.

Non-denominations are non-denominations because they can’t agree with anyone else.

Well that’s not always the case.
Some such as Calvary Chapel and subsequently Vineyard are such, because they did not grow out of an existing accepted Denomination.
History will likely record them as denominations too, it takes time. Methodism too had this same notoriety in its’ early days.

Each denomination trying to take members from each other.

Please be a spokesperson for your former and present specifically attended groups, thank you and nothing more.

All claiming to be led by the same Holy Spirit in their thousands of interpretations of the same Gospel, which you claim is so clearly defined and rendererd.

Nice twist friend that is NOT what I said, read it again…

Your remarks may sound good to a cradle Catholic not familiar with scripture or Protestantism, but you and I know better.

My remarks referred to a concise clear message, not anything difficult to understand as John Gospel declares the very reason as to why it alone was written.

If that Gospel is so clearly defined and rendered why aren’t they ONE instead of a Tower of Babel, with endless split on split and still continuing to split?

Well the Eastern Orthodox would blame the West (this includes you), of embracing scholasticism and then granting it authority. No one ever said everything in the word of God is clearly defined and not difficult. In fact I will tell you that parts of Scripture are unresolved.

How many groups has your sola scriptura clearly defined Godpel united?

You misunderstand the problem and sola scriptura. Let’s look at it like this. Sola scriptura is a practice and not the sole authority, but the highest appeal of authority. That would be a working definition for future reference. Now let me ask you, your exact question with a select substition:
How many groups has your Roman Catholicism clearly defined Gospel united?
Do you see a pattern here?

How many groups has your sola scriptura…
I can’t think of one. How many has it divided?

Freedom in non-essentials united in doctrine, probably as much, if not more so for the most part, as any of those who accepted the eariliest of Creeds as compared to those who do the same today.

Please tell me which of those many denominations or so called non-denominations do you belong?

Calvary Chapel friend.

Which group was it a split from?

Calvary Chapel is a protestant community and is part of it today.Tell me what were Roman Catholics before insisting on being called Roman Catholics?
By the very definition of Catholic/universal; Roman Catholic is not universal but Roman Catholic.
By his graces, his servant, Nic