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bmullins
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Because we as humans read it with a preconceived notion. Without a firm understanding of who the people are, what they have done, and what covenants mean; it’s difficult to see why certain people would be wiped out and others left alone.
Let’s take the Genesis quote from the very beginning. If we read it alone, we tend to think God is setting them up to die. If I place you in a greenhouse filled with all sorts of things, but one plant is poisonous… and I warn you, everything in here is ok to eat… but that one back there, it will kill you. Am I being hateful? Not at all… I’m being loving, warning you that that one is dangerous.
If we do a thorough study of the people who received curses by breaking covenants, and by doing things like maternal incest (Ham for instance.) Then we consider their descendants and how they were handled by God, we find that there were reasons for what seems like cruelty. (Not to mention understanding God was a father, protecting his children in a dangerous land.)
Let’s take the Genesis quote from the very beginning. If we read it alone, we tend to think God is setting them up to die. If I place you in a greenhouse filled with all sorts of things, but one plant is poisonous… and I warn you, everything in here is ok to eat… but that one back there, it will kill you. Am I being hateful? Not at all… I’m being loving, warning you that that one is dangerous.
If we do a thorough study of the people who received curses by breaking covenants, and by doing things like maternal incest (Ham for instance.) Then we consider their descendants and how they were handled by God, we find that there were reasons for what seems like cruelty. (Not to mention understanding God was a father, protecting his children in a dangerous land.)
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Wahtubee
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I know that Jesus is supposed to be the ultimate sacrifice for animal sacrifice, but what does the murdering children and women in Leviticus have to do with it?
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bmullins
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Where exactly in Leviticus are you talking about? It’s a pretty big book, filled with a great deal of legal and social laws that have been developed over time.
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Wahtubee
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Like Lev 20:9
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Wahtubee
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bmullins
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First, as I said above you need to understand a covenant.
What is a covenant? A covenant is an agreement with two unequal parties. Covenants were a vital part of the culture in the early times of mankind. The king would make a covenant with his vassal, someone who couldn’t give him anything in return, and the king would be bound to keep his promise. God made a covenant with Abraham, and the bible gives us a description of that covenant.
God gives us a vision of the covenant between him and Abraham. Abraham has divided animals in half and placed them opposite each other. Then in his vision he sees a torch and a pot pass between them. This was a binding covenant. God was saying if I break my promise to you, then I shall be torn in half just like these animals. That’s a powerful thing! And remember, God had no one more powerful to swear by so He made the promise by Himself! God cannot break this promise. That’s the entire concept of the covenant.
Yet it also shows us that there is a blessing AND a curse. If we break the covenant, we will be just like those animals, dead. This is why the wages of sin is death. If we break our promise to God, we deserve death.
Now God is not just the guy down the street with a peice of paper. When we enter under the covenant with God, we have agreed that if we break that covenant, we will die. It’s not a simple matter and the people of Israel knew this. God cannot break his word, he can’t lie. Part of that covenant includes the 10 commandments. How much more serious can you get than the Decalogue? The very first part of the covenant of Sinai?
He that curseth his father, or mother, dying let him die: he hath cursed his father, and mother, let his blood be upon him. - Leviticus 20:9
Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee. - Exodus 20:12
Here we are simply reaffirming the very law that God gave from Sinai. If you break it, as you would by cursing your father and mother you would be breaking the covenant. If you break the covenant, you should die.
Jesus died for you, because you and I both deserve to die according to the covenant. God could not simply break the covenant, he had to fulfill it. To fulfill it he either had to give the blessing (which we clearly do not deserve) or the curse (death). In order to be true, and God must be true, because God IS truth, he had to give the curse. So he did. Yet instead of giving it to you or me, who deserve it… he took it on himself.
That is the point of the law, and the point of the cross. So your question “Jesus is supposed to be the ultimate sacrifice… [what does] Leviticus have to do with it?” It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Leviticus shows us that we could not live up to our side of the bargain. That when we try to live up to God’s standards, which are above and beyond anything we are capable of… we break the covenant every time. It’s only through God and his guidance, that we can be lead to do so.
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bmullins
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It’s a bible written by and for Atheists and skeptics, in order to attempt to bring to the forefront what they consider inconsistencies or absurdities in the bible. A great deal of it has been refuted. It’s mostly irrational or ‘arguments from outrage’ that have no place in exegetical or Christological hermeneutics.
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Wahtubee
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So did someone accept a covenant that I had no choice over in terms of accepting?
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bmullins
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You accepted the Covenant of Christ when you were confirmed. No one is forced to enter the covenant at all. The simple fact is, if you don’t enter the covenant then you get the only thing that you have coming to you, death. You have the option to enter the covenant that allows you grace, that will give you life.
The reality is that you aren’t under the covenant of Sinai, neither am I. That is why we don’t go around preaching about stoning and all of that. But we are under the reality that when you die you cannot receive life without God. The covenants were ways to avoid death, because they showed you how to find life.
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Wahtubee
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I have not completed Catholic Confirmation. I’ve only done Holy Communion. But doesn’t everyone have grace when they are born? I was never baptized in the Catholic Church but I was baptized in the Armenian Orthodox Church. Do I have free will? Isn’t grace free will?
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bmullins
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You do have free will. Baptism forgives you of your sins. You now have a choice, you can confirm your baptism or reject it. You’re now at the age where it is no longer your parents deciding what you do, but YOU deciding what you do.
Remember this though, the covenant doesn’t make hell appear. It is not that you are heading towards life and then the covenant comes along and makes death a reality. Death is already the reality. The covenant is God reaching his hand down and saying, You don’t have to die. You have the free will indeed to make that choice. You can reach up and take God’s hand, confirm yourself in your faith, and then continue to receive God’s grace. Or you can reject God’s offer. Think long and hard about what confirmation means, and what rejecting it means as well.
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Wahtubee
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Does this mean everyone is heading to hell? Because from what I’ve read in the CCC, some people who haven’t even heard of Christianity can go to Heaven. People who search for God and can’t find Him, but still do not give up in searching can go to Heaven, too. I don’t know the entries but I’ll try to find them.
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bmullins
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No, not everyone is going to hell. Imagine it like this: You have a destination to get to, and it involves going from point A to point B, through point C. The start of your trip is on one side of the galaxy, and the end is on the other. Now you know where the start is, but you don’t know where the end is… and you don’t know where point B is that you have to go through.
It’s very possible that some people starting at point A are going to coincidentally go through point B… they may not even realize it. Yet they still have to get to point C. When we consider the odds, it gets harder and hard to imagine someone accidentally going through point B AND getting to point C. It’s still possible, but highly unlikely.
Now those with a map, have a much better chance of getting to point C and they know where point B is … but they won’t necessarily make it either. They might get off course. They might lose the map along the way… or even decide the map isn’t worth following and try to find a different course. They might even start following another ship instead of the map deciding that ship looks like they know where it’s going.
There are also others out there with the map, who are willing to share. They are going around and finding those lost in the universe and showing them how to get there. They offer the map to anyone who is without one.
What does that have to do with anything? You are at point A. You have to go through point B (Jesus Christ) to get to point C (Heaven.) You have been given a map. You can follow the map and know how to get there, or you can throw it away and try to get there on your own… or even go to a different person who you think has a better map and hope they lead you there… but in the end you already have the map.
Getting to Heaven is much easier if you are Catholic and have the map. There are others who are not Catholic who have a partial map and they are trying to head in the right direction, some of them are going to make it. There are also some out there who likely don’t have a map at all, but they are searching in spirit and truth and they might find Jesus and Heaven… but their chances are much less.
To whom much is given, much is expected. To whom little is given, little is expected.
Now you are in a unique situation, because you have been offered the map. You know the map exists, and have enough knowledge to learn more about the map. Now it’s up to you to decide if you want to throw the map away, or follow it.
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Wahtubee
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Oh, okay! Thank you very much for your thoughts and words! Thanks! 
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Crumpy
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I read a couple paragraphs from the link in the OP.
The bible teaches that God is merciful and just. the description of God as cruel is wrong on several accounts. The Bible does not teach that God is cruel, God is just. cruelty is a combination of rage, revenge, sadism, etc. whereas the Bible teaches that God is unchangeable, and does not have tantrums, etc.
The use of the term “cruel” is a judgment of some men. We are in no position to judge God. This is a fundamental doctrine of the Bible.
The same link says that fundamentalists believe that every word of the Bible is literally true. Wrong. Catholics are the only ones that believe in the real presence of Jesus is the Eucharist, which the Bible teaches.
Fundamentalists reject the authority of the Catholic Church to interpret the Bible. Having said that, they appoint themselves to interpret it. Go figure.
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Wahtubee
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Awesome reply! Thanks!
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