Virgin Mary as a Co-redeemer? What?

[Ignatius2000]

What other books are you referring to other than the Holy Bible? What is Sola Scriptura?
Maybe these questions should be given in another thread? I’m not sure.

Sola Scriptura - “By Scripture alone” (do we come to know the fullness of truth). This is the general term for the position that the Bible is the sole font of Truth.

This statement is problematic on several levels because it:
1.) Leads to circular logic
2.) The notion that the Bible ALONE is the sole rule of faith is not supportable by scripture and thus disproves itself
3.) Sola Scriptura is a doctrine/teaching of MAN (that wasn’t even mentioned until ~500 years ago–completely foreign to the early Church) and thus inherently flawed.

There are many fundamental Christians that wish to get back to the faith of the early Christian Church, yet they refuse to give up the notion of Sola Scriptura, and until they do just that they’re separated from the early Church by one of the most difficult-to-overcome ways: how they understand Scripture.

There are more reasons to reject Sola Scriptura (which I’m not going to get into since it would contribute greatly to the derailing of this thread) many of which you’ll find if you look around these forums.

Pax tecum

 

[sosayi1960]

sosayi1960:
I have understood that her “Assumption” brings her to the throne of God. Is that right? Does the church believe this?

 

[Claude_Kenneson]

I have understood that her “Assumption” brings her to the throne of God. Is that right? Does the church believe this?

According to Rev. 3:4-9 shows that there are 24 thrones about the throne of God, with 24 elders seated upon them. In the midst of the throne and around the throne are four-living creatures… Rev. 5:6 says the Lamb is standing in the midst of the throne. Vs. 13 says myriads of angels are heard around the throne and the living creatures and the older persons. Rev. 7:9-10 has a great crowd, which no man can number, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. Rev. 14:3 has the 144,000 singing before the throne and the four living creatures. So, why wouldn’t Mary be there as well?

 

[christcnection1]

What other books are you referring to other than the Holy Bible? What is Sola Scriptura?
Maybe these questions should be given in another thread? I’m not sure.

Sola Scripura is the notion that the Bible is the final and sole rule of faith. I agree let’s stay on topic, but one cannot give an accurate response to the faith unless they establish basic tenets of the faith. To discuss Catholic topics, and then to suggest one must have explicit Biblical evidence for those beliefs, assumes one must believe in Sola Scriptura. (We don’t)

If you want to know why, here are some good links.

catholic.com/library/scripture_tradition.asp
scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html

As already mentioned, Co-Redeemer does not mean “equal to.” It means “with.” All faithful followers of Christ are working with Christ, by His grace alone, to save souls. He has chosen us to work with Him in His plan of redemption, but even more so concerning holy Mary our Mother.

This is on topic:

catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9211fea3.asp

 

[christcnection1]

Honor is one thing, to say she gives grace is another. She is Not a Goddess. I remember watching pictures and statues of Mary. Crowning the May Queen etc. It’s appears pagan. It’s made of wood or whatever. I don’t have a problem saying pray for me, anymore than I do for my parents who died. I cannot call her a mediator. Jesus is the only mediator with with Father.
I’m concerned when people “Worship Mary”. Only God deserves worship. Joseph is holy, Peter is holy, Mary is holy. All are and were human. Part ot the communion of saints. My fear is raising her up to the very throne of God.
May we all pray for peace.

I strongly suggest you listen to this. I think you’ll find it highly interesting and Biblical, whether you will ultimately believe it or not.

biblechristiansociety.com/download
See: Mary & the Bible; plus Purgatory & the Bible

We do not worship Mary! She is not God!

 

[b2memphis]

Of course catholic tradition tells you that you must use catholic tradition as “gospel”, that prevents you from following the scriptures as you shold and leads you astray.

 

[christcnection1]

Of course catholic tradition tells you that you must use catholic tradition as “gospel”, that prevents you from following the scriptures as you shold and leads you astray.

What are you braindead or just joking?

Tell that to the hundreds of former Protestant ministers and pastors that have been coming to the Catholic Church within the last several years.

I came to the Catholic Church because I thought it was more Biblical. You’ll find countless individuals who had the same experience.

 

[Ignatius2000]

Of course catholic tradition tells you that you must use catholic tradition as “gospel”, that prevents you from following the scriptures as you shold and leads you astray.

I’m sorry, I’m not about to give up two of the three tools that aid me in understanding and knowing God. Tradition and the Magisterium are centuries old fonts of knowledge about God and His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.

Tradition is a unifying force. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura, “following Scripture as you ‘shold’” as you so put, it is EXACTLY why no two Protestants can agree on any single Scriptural interpretation outside of the fact that Jesus is God (some would even argue that point). Again, since “all one needs is the Bible,” is precisely why there are so many Christian denominations that cannot agree with anything but the basic tenets of faith. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura is the man-made notion that EVERY MAN’s interpretation is correct. This had led to a fracturing of the Body of Christ and is in FACT a tool of Satan for that very reason. Give up “finding on your own” and learn from those who have SEEN and HEARD: the Saints and their traditions held within the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[b2memphis]

If I decided to use catholic tradition as any sort of basis for my faith I’d be led astray just like you’ve been. No, I will follow the scriptures and be saved, you follow your misguiding tradition straight to hell.

Again, WHAT DO THE SCRIPTURES SAY?

2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[christcnection1]

If I decided to use catholic tradition as any sort of basis for my faith I’d be led astray just like you’ve been. No, I will follow the scriptures and be saved, you follow your misguiding tradition straight to hell.

Again, WHAT DO THE SCRIPTURES SAY?

2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Very few Protestants here are damning Catholics to hell. We certainly are not damning you to hell b2memphis!

God bless you. I wish you the best in your walk with our Lord and only Savior, Jesus Christ.

All the best…

 

[Mannyfit75]

If I decided to use catholic tradition as any sort of basis for my faith I’d be led astray just like you’ve been. No, I will follow the scriptures and be saved, you follow your misguiding tradition straight to hell.

How do you save people who cannot read the Bible?

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

If I decided to use catholic tradition as any sort of basis for my faith I’d be led astray just like you’ve been. No, I will follow the scriptures and be saved, you follow your misguiding tradition straight to hell.

This is probably the most un-Christian post I’ve seen in a long time. What a slap in Our Lord’s face! By the way, it isn’t catholic tradition. It’s Tradition (capital T) because it is the WORD of GOD handed down through the Church HE founded. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Himself upon Peter.

Since you are so fond of quoting scripture, I’ll remind you that scripture says judge not, lest ye be judged. You might want to rethink your position on judging us to hell.

Again, WHAT DO THE SCRIPTURES SAY?

The scriptures say that there were many more things that Jesus did that cannot be recorded because the world itself could not contain the books that could be written. Do you think the same might possibly apply to what the Apostles did and said? How you could you possibly think that everything they said and did would be written down?

2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

AMEN! Thank God we have the written Word of God which is profitable for our doctrine, for reproof and for correction etc. Scripture also tells us in Titus 3:8 that “good deeds” are profitable to men so “profitability” is not exclusive to scripture. NO WHERE in scripture does it say that scripture is our only authority.

You go ahead and follow your personal interpretation of scripture. You can memorize and quote it as much as you want. As for me, I will recognize that my personal interpretation could lead to my destruction (as I am warned in 2 Peter 3:16). I will rely on the Church founded by Jesus (on which the gates of hell will never prevai)l to guide me regarding the hidden meanings of scripture in regarding the Blessed Mother.

 

[b2memphis]

We must be obedient, you simply refuse to be obedient. You say you love the Lord yet you refuse to obey Him. I’m not damning you to hell, you’re doing that yourself.

 

[b2memphis]

I’m not judging anything, you judge yourself by refusing to be obedient to the word of the Lord.

 

[LilyM]

We must be obedient, you simply refuse to be obedient. You say you love the Lord yet you refuse to obey Him. I’m not damning you to hell, you’re doing that yourself.

Obedient to who and what though? To you? To your Pastor? To your interpretation of scripture which has no more authority behind it than mine or anyone’s here?

Remember Jesus didn’t promise to found a book, never did he command the writing of a single word of the New Testament, except the letters in Revelation.

Nor did he make salvation dependent on any book either - that would mean that the illiterate could not be saved, nor could those Christians who lived in the decades before a single word of the New Testament was written.

He founded a CHURCH (not churchES) that must ‘all be one’ as Christ and the Father are one. Can you say with a straight face that the non-Catholic churches have that sort of unity?

And he commanded the Apostles to preach, teach, baptise, celebrate the Lord’s Supper - not to write!

 

[Mannyfit75]

I’m not judging anything, you judge yourself by refusing to be obedient to the word of the Lord.

How can you claim such things? We Catholics hear the Word of God, in the Liturgical Readings at Mass (/Daily Mass if possible).

The readings contain First Reading from the OT, Second Reading from the Epistles, not to mention the Psalms (Responsoral Psalm), and the Gospel Reading. Any practicing Catholic try to at least obey the commandments and by living out their faith. We do not reject God.

We received the Lord Jesus Christ on our mouth at Mass, and yes it does get very personal for us since we believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist (Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, and no we don’t believe it is symbolic). We believe it just as Jesus said in the Gospel of John 6 “Bread Discourse”

and again you are judging by claiming to know what is in our hearts.

We Catholics have Apostolic Sucession, your church does not.