Visions? Delusions? Satanic Deceptions?

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Why does it seem that Catholic devotion, theology, the founding of religious orders and other aspects of Catholic life are so influenced by visions and apparitions? How does the church separate what it classifies as authentic and true versus what might be mere hallucinations or even demonic deceptions? Is it not sketchy to take someone at her word when it comes to these things?
"…Once we say this, we open the door to an ocean of ideas that, as Catholics, we had better have definite norms by which to judge whether these ideas have been supernaturally communicated by God through those who claim to be speaking in His name.

Before we go any further, let me share with you some of the most fundamental norms by which we can judge whether an alleged visionary is even telling the truth, not to say receiving supernatural communications from God. The visionary must be a person of at least ordinary virtue. The one virtue, which is indispensable, is sincere humility. Authentic mystics do not publicize their mystical experiences. The last thing that a Teresa of Avila wanted was to broadcast her locutions from our Lord. The widespread publicity that so many visionaries are not only accepting but promoting is a bedrock proof that they are mystics only in their own minds…"

"…In some ways this is the most difficult standard by which to judge the validity of a visionary’s locutions. Does the visionary submit to ecclesiastical authority expressed by the bishop of the diocese or the Bishop of Rome? In an age like ours, one reason for the flood of “revelations” is that the Church’s Authority is so widely ignored or even rejected. "

By Fr. J. Hardon S.J.
Visionaries and Visions
 
Does the apparition then stamp a seal on the doctrine?
It certainly shows (to some degree and within the boundaries of a private revelation) that God may be well-pleased with the dogma of the immaculate conception of Our Lady.
 
RC,

Would you say that it is possible that someone like a saint who understands the spiritual dryness and recognizes it when it happens to them, realizes that this dryness even though feels like God is not there, is actually really when God is the closest?

In other words, they recognize that the dryness is actually a trial directly from God, so instead of feeling sorrow, they then are capable of feeling great happiness and see it as a gift instead? So it sort of cancels itself out?*
 
RC,

Would you say that it is possible that someone like a saint who understands the spiritual dryness and recognizes it when it happens to them, realizes that this dryness even though feels like God is not there, is actually really when God is the closest?

In other words, they recognize that the dryness is actually a trial directly from God, so instead of feeling sorrow, they then are capable of feeling great happiness and see it as a gift instead? So it sort of cancels itself out?
All I can tell you is what I have learned from the lives of those few saints whose (auto)biographies I have read, remembering that in life they would have sternly rejected anyone calling them saints and saw themselves as sinners (though, of course, they were very advanced in the devout life).

All who reach a certain level in the devout life do enter this stage of dryness. As far as I can tell, a significant difference between those holy men and the average faithful lays in that: in the recognition that God was always close to them, though for a special trial He willed that they felt no consolation whatsoever, only the dry wood of the cross.

However, not one of them felt any happiness.

It was by a sheer act of will and obedience that they kept loving God and doing His will, and bearing the sorrows, sadness, darkness, and desolation.

And upon entering this stage, their greatest merit: to not ask God to end this trial, but, rather, to prostrate humbly before His majesty and say: “good Lord, let it be done to me according to your word…not what I want, but what you want!”

In this they were more perfectly made into the person of Christ, who felt no happiness whatsoever after His most sorrowful passion, and no consolation after, having sent His mother and His beloved disciple home, was abandoned by all and at one point also experienced the very same “dark night” in which even God is seemingly hidden.

The main difference is very subtle, then: it is a matter of despair versus endurance.

Christ endured on the cross and in the end of His trial said with a loud voice: “paid in full!” (translated also as “it is done!”). The saints, in their patient and obedient imitation of Christ, endured this most harsh trial and in the end (sometimes in the very last moment of their life, as we see with St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Anthony of Padova, St. Teresa de Los Andes, St. Padre Pio) were given one last instant of consolation before the eternal bliss.

St. Therese of Lisieux, the sweet little flower, endured the horrific sorrows of tubercolosis, and in the very last instants of life radiated with joy as she said her last words: “My God, I love you!”

St. Anthony of Padova, on his deathbed, would look up one last time after a lifetime of great mortification and say: “I see my Lord!”

St. Teresa de Los Andes endured great sorrows of illness before death and felt God’s abandonment, pronouncing the very words of Christ on deathbed: “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”…then at the very last instant, having a sister nun approached a crucifix to her, she smiled peacefully and said for the last time: “My spouse!”.

St. Padre Pio, after bearing the most sorrowful stigmata for 50 years (and the equally sorrowful stigmata of being discriminated and treated harshly to the extent of persecution even by his very brothers in the Church) was granted one day, his last day, without stigmata: he showed the world that they were miraculously healed on his very last Mass, the first one, perhaps, in 50 years celebrated without pain, and his smile (see 1 and 2) show how grateful he was for such a wonderful consolation…he would depart from this life that very night.

All these saints accomplish one wonderful work: to reflect Christ in their lives, sorrows, and death. For all they lived was, to a lesser extent, what Christ had experienced first. A lifetime of endurance, in which they did not look for sorrows or sufferings, but rather simply willed to do God’s will, to serve Him no matter what the price to pay, accepting to imitate Christ on the way of the cross, expecting nothing in return, asking for no consolation. And, as St. John of the Cross writes (though I paraphrase him), “when they had renounced to everything, everything was given to them”: in tribulation, they found peace; amidst sorrows, they did not experience despair but endured; amidst terror, they did not fear, but took courage; abandoned by all, they found brothers and sisters without number; and finally, having lost the feeling of the presence of God, they found themselves at the presence of God.

The secret of their wonderful imitation of Christ (and of His blessed mother) was then to experience the trial to its fullness, but to react to it diametrically differently from what the world expects…and this would make no sense whatsoever, unless they had believed that in the end of their way to Calvary stood Christ…if not with their eyes, with the strength of their free will.

I apologize for not having the gift of conciseness 😊 I hope some of what I wrote actually helps in answering your very profound question.
 
It did help RC and makes a lot of sense. Thank you for responding.
 
It is also interesting that the halo appears to predate Christianity.
Well, we do see a description with regards to Moses that is rather ancient. And since God does not abandon others who “worship what they do not know”, it is very possible that some people throughout the ages have achieved great levels of holiness by seeking God with all their heart and doing His will to the best of their knowledge 🤷
 
Well, we do see a description with regards to Moses that is rather ancient. And since God does not abandon others who “worship what they do not know”, it is very possible that some people throughout the ages have achieved great levels of holiness by seeking God with all their heart and doing His will to the best of their knowledge 🤷
RC What you say is indeed the traditional line and is “consistent with” the evidence.
However “consistent with” don’t mean that other objects may have done the dastardly deed (I am using a court based analogy afterall).

As one who likes to shave with Ocham’s Razor I believe the more simple the explanation the more likely the correct cause.

A simpler explanation, given that many of these paranormal (preternatural if you wish) occur across many cultures and religions, is that these “powers” are inherent deep within human nature itself.

The issue then becomes how is it that certain persons in certain circumstances seem able on occassions to access/exercise these gifts (often involuntarily or indirectly) even when they are not particularly virtuous or connected with any sort of divine allegiance.

Simon Magus and Daniel Home are more obvious examples that do not fit well into the popular Christian explanation.

These can be accommodated by posing demonic influence rather than divine. Then we have the problem of deciding grey cases - Christians obviously assigning the demonic to anything that doesn’t explicitly back Christianity. Yet there appear to be many instances where the preternatural activity endorses nothing, no teaching, no doctrine, no group nor message - it just happens. Like lightning, like beauty, like rain. Just part of the surprising tapestry and variety of natural creation.

I believe the simplest explanation then is that some are born able to access deep and rare parts of our human nature just like any other talent. Yes training, willpower, heroic virtue (or vice) also seem to play a role. But don’t look to the paranormal activity for intrinsic meaning - there is probably no more instrinsic meaning than one would find in an oustandingly beautiful Christian woman. A great gift of nature (made by God). But that is hardly a vindication of Revelation.
 
To a great extent I think I agree with you. And I 'd never fall into the huge mistake of saying supernatural->comes from God…:tsktsk: It could, but it could be demonic or human in origin 🤷

However my whole point was that the painters didn’t come up with the idea of the halo 🙂
 
From the Interior Castle by St. Teresa , on locutions/visions and how to distinguish about them

sacred-texts.com/chr/tic/tic20.htm
The link is not quoting anything from Interior Castle, though it says so in the title. Note the footnotes that quote from her Life and St. John of the Cross. People looking to find the source quote will not find it in that book.

I was surprised and pleased to find that her works are now available on Kindle for a very reasonable price.
 
The link is not quoting anything from Interior Castle, though it says so in the title…
I was surprised and pleased to find that her works are now available on Kindle for a very reasonable price.
Sirach not quite sure what you mean?
The text of the above link is word for word the same as in my copy of The Interior Castle (Zimmerman (editor), published by Christian Classics Ethereal Library)

BTW this book (and many others) are available as a free pdf download (or audio mp3) at Ethereal Classics.
 
This is what you see in the Footnotes at the bottom of Christine85’s link. None of the references are from Interior Castle, but her Life.

Footnotes
175:1 Life, ch. xxiii. 114.
176:2 Antonius a Sp. S. l.c. tr. iii. n. 323. St. John of the Cross, Ascent of Mount Carmel, bk. ii. ch. xxvii.
176:3 Life, ch. xxv. 13, 18.
177:4 Ps. cxlviii. 5: ‘Ipse dixit et facta sunt.’ Life, ch. xxv. 5. Anton. a Sp. S. l.c. tr. iii. n. 353. St. John of the Cross, Ascent of Mount Carmel, bk. ii. ch. xxxi. calls these ‘substantial words.’
177:5 Life, ch. xxvi. 6; xxx. 17. Rel. i. 26.
177:6 St. Luke xxiv. 36.
177:7 Life, ch. xxv. 22; xxxiii. 10. Rel. vii. 22. St. John of the Cross, Ascent of Mount Carmel, bk. ii. ch. xxxi. 1.
178:8 Life, ch. xxxv. 7. Rel. ix. 6. St. John of the Cross, Ascent of Mount Carmel, bk. iii. ch. ii. 7.

And so on. There’s no need to print them all here, for you can see it in the link.

AH, I just figured out the problem! The Interior Castle on Christine’s web link has reference numbers on the right side. When you go to Chapter III, and scroll way ahead to 175, the words are the same as the link. What was extremely confusing to me is that the link does not designate I.C.'s Sixth Mansion, Chapter III, which is where the quote came from. It just says Chapter III without any further reference beside the footnote, which only refers to “Life, Ch. XXIII.”
 
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