Visiting priests

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The epiclesis occurs at the offeratory, before the consecration, in the roman mass. It is not always worded exact, but the invocation of the holy sprit is in every DWS of the church.

Yes, it is implied in the First Eucharistic prayer. The actual words calling down the Holy Spirit just do not occur there.

This is the issue that many Orthodox have with the Extraordinary Form of the Mass.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

The epiclesis occurs at the offeratory, before the consecration, in the roman mass. It is not always worded exact, but the invocation of the holy sprit is in every DWS of the church.

Right. After offering the chalice and immediately before washing the fingers the priest prays "*Come, Thou Sanctifier, almighty and eternal God, and bless [sign of cross] this scrifice prepared for the glory of thy holy name. " * I presume that the Holy Spirit is the Sanctifier.

 

[Aramis]

Right. After offering the chalice and immediately before washing the fingers the priest prays "*Come, Thou Sanctifier, almighty and eternal God, and bless [sign of cross] this scrifice prepared for the glory of thy holy name. " * I presume that the Holy Spirit is the Sanctifier.

Thanks, Joe. That’s it. That’s the epiclesis.

 

[MrS]

I was there for the last of the three Masses this priest celebrated. His antics are well described here:
unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2009/05/whats-wrong-with-missionary-priests.html

While it is true that the bread and the wine, (which also represent the major food crop of spring - wheat and the major crop of the fall - wine) are presented by the people, that is outside the sanctuary.

The priest repeats the institution prayers of the Last Supper. The bread now becomes His Body. Transubstantiation is NOT us. It is Christ alone, His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

His interpretation of “this is My Body” might be contained in this book:
seanhyland.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/christoph-raspergers-1577-pamphlet-ducentae-paucorum-listing-200-protestant-interpretations-of-christs-words-this-is-my-body/

or perhaps it is number 201.

And his interpretation of “… do this in memory” ignores the explicit instructions given to the Apostles (not us) as the ministerial Priesthood was made sacramental by Christ. Rather he said it was instructions not only for us in the pew, but instruction for us to do things like support his ministry.

I have written a detailed response to both Patrick (his choice to not use Fr.), his superiors, and to my pastor… both on the problem of introducing confusion/heresy and on the need to continue the wonderful catechesis which the pastor offers.

.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Right. After offering the chalice and immediately before washing the fingers the priest prays "*Come, Thou Sanctifier, almighty and eternal God, and bless [sign of cross] this scrifice prepared for the glory of thy holy name. " * I presume that the Holy Spirit is the Sanctifier.

That is wonderful but it is not in the Ordinary Form of the Mass. No where in the First Eucharistic prayer is the Holy Spirit addressed explicitly.

Again, this is a matter of contention with the Orthodox and a dislike of the Roman Canon.

 

[Jan_Bolbot]

I sat through an incident like this several years at my old and quite traditional parish. We had visiting priests in the summer for Sunday evening Mass. This fellow went on in the homily about how badly the Church treated women and how we really shouldn’t listen to the Pope, etc.

A number of people got up and walked out. My wife and I sat through the whole thing and then I went home and wrote a letter to the pastor (as did several others) who needless to say was embarassed and Fr. Visitor never came back.

JB

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I will never walk out of a valid Mass as that is truly Christ on the altar and I would never walk out on Christ.

 

[Shin]

I will never walk out of a valid Mass as that is truly Christ on the altar and I would never walk out on Christ.

It is not walking out on Christ to leave the mass when there is something like this occurring, anymore than it’s walking out on Christ after mass is over and He is waiting in the tabernacle.

It’s a nice sentiment to desire to stay through such things, and there can be good reasons to do so, but a false comparison to chide those who left with – and there are Christ-like reasons for not witnessing certain things that can require one to leave, or give one prudent good reason to leave – so as to let the priest know how bad what he is doing could be one of those reasons.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It is not walking out on Christ to leave the mass when there is something like this occurring, anymore than it’s walking out on Christ after mass is over and He is waiting in the tabernacle.

It’s a nice sentiment to desire to stay through such things, and there can be good reasons to do so, but a false comparison to chide those who left with – and there are Christ-like reasons for not witnessing certain things that can require one to leave, or give one prudent good reason to leave – so as to let the priest know how bad what he is doing could be one of those reasons.

I did no such thing. I just stated that I would never walk out and why.

 

[FrCorey]

It’s only valid if he followed a approved and valid formula.

 

[pmoo]

Receiving the Eucharist makes us “in persona christi”. Maybe this is what he meant?

 

[MrS]

He very clearly said… “You do not come to communion, you ARE communion.”

And at the consecration, he said “…This is…” and then he paused and made a sweeping, inclusive motion with his hands, and repeated “THIS is… THIS is” as he pointed to the congregation… and then finished “…my body…”

/