Vocation Discernment

[Petertherock]

I have been discerning a religious vocation for a number of years. The problem is I don’t know what direction I want to go in. I am 33 years old and I know time is running out (although some places will take you up to your mid 40s)

The thing is I am being pulled in different directions. I sometimes feel I want to enter the diocesan priesthood. I have actually visited one of the seminaries and attended a discernment retreat in my diocese. I found both experiences to be quite spiritually rewarding and has deepened my faith immensly.

Then sometimes I think of entering the religious life as a brother or a monk. I was looking at the Fransciscans and the Trappist Monks. I like the Franciscans because they aren’t as “sheltered” as the trappist monks and they live a more “normal” life as far as being out in the community and doing things “normal” people do.

However, sometimes I think that “normal” worldly stuff may be a distraction to my life with God. Living a strict monastic life although would be very tough to get used to would I feel be the most spiritually rewarding. This weekend’s Gospel reading kind of started me thinking about the monastic life more, in paticular this line…“Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”

Although it would be hard to give up all the things I enjoy like sports, music, concerts, meat and all that stuff, by losing my life I would find a better life. I life that will lead me to everlasting life with Jesus. So, I guess I will just have to pray more about this, and talk to my priest to see what he says.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Darryl,

I was in your shoes when I was 33.

I am now 38 and in the final stages of the applications process with the Carmelites.

I have had a couple of false starts.

There is some advice I want to give to you on this.

1. Get a spiritual director.
2. Get to know some priests and brothers, talk with them ask their advice.
3. Any one who pushes you to one group or another needs to be questioned closely as to why they are doing so
4. Visit as many different groups as you can
5. Discern prayerfully. Prayer is very important.
6. Keep at it, don’t get discouraged.

 

[misericordie]

Petertherock:

I have been discerning a religious vocation for a number of years. The problem is I don’t know what direction I want to go in. I am 33 years old and I know time is running out (although some places will take you up to your mid 40s)

The thing is I am being pulled in different directions. I sometimes feel I want to enter the diocesan priesthood. I have actually visited one of the seminaries and attended a discernment retreat in my diocese. I found both experiences to be quite spiritually rewarding and has deepened my faith immensly.

Then sometimes I think of entering the religious life as a brother or a monk. I was looking at the Fransciscans and the Trappist Monks. I like the Franciscans because they aren’t as “sheltered” as the trappist monks and they live a more “normal” life as far as being out in the community and doing things “normal” people do.

However, sometimes I think that “normal” worldly stuff may be a distraction to my life with God. Living a strict monastic life although would be very tough to get used to would I feel be the most spiritually rewarding. This weekend’s Gospel reading kind of started me thinking about the monastic life more, in paticular this line…“Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”

Although it would be hard to give up all the things I enjoy like sports, music, concerts, meat and all that stuff, by losing my life I would find a better life. I life that will lead me to everlasting life with Jesus. So, I guess I will just have to pray more about this, and talk to my priest to see what he says.

First, I applaud you for having the courage to face the issue and not be afraid to post it here. Guess what? I am in the same boat and was born October 16th, 1970. I will Private message you later tonight here. I have to go for now. In the meantime, you may want to consider praying a novena to Our Lady of Perpetual Help?

 

[Petertherock]

Thank you all. I talked to my pastor who I have been in contact with for several years now during my discernment. I haven’t really talked to him about being a monk or brother but I have some financial issues that were a major obstacle. My pastor was the former director of seminarians for the diocese and he was replaced recently by another priest. He gave me the name, address, and phone number of the current director of seminarians. He told me to write or call him and tell him about my whole situation. He also said he would have no problem doing a letter of recommendation if that was required.

I also know that St. Mary’s seminary in Baltimore have a program for people like me who have no college degree that are in their 30s and 40s. My old boss went to St. Mary’s and he liked it. Unfortunately he left to pursue a married life (I guess it’s not unfortunate since he is happily married) I went to the live in retreat at Theological College in Washington, DC and I liked it. I am hoping to be able to go to a retreat at St. Mary’s at some point.

Anyway, that’s where that’s at for now. I am doing lots of praying over this and I am praying the Holy Spirit guides me in whatever decision I make.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I would hold off on looking into seminaries unless they are diocesan sponsored “Come and See” weekend/retreat.

The reason for this is the Bishop or the Religious Order will tell you which seminary they want you to go to. You may get some (name removed by moderator)ut into that decision (most likely with a diocease but not with an order) but I would not count on it.

This is one of the reasons why I did not go though the process with one of the dioceases I was in contact with, I did not care for the seminary they use.

 

[misericordie]

Petertherock:

Thank you all. I talked to my pastor who I have been in contact with for several years now during my discernment. I haven’t really talked to him about being a monk or brother but I have some financial issues that were a major obstacle. My pastor was the former director of seminarians for the diocese and he was replaced recently by another priest. He gave me the name, address, and phone number of the current director of seminarians. He told me to write or call him and tell him about my whole situation. He also said he would have no problem doing a letter of recommendation if that was required.

I also know that St. Mary’s seminary in Baltimore have a program for people like me who have no college degree that are in their 30s and 40s. My old boss went to St. Mary’s and he liked it. Unfortunately he left to pursue a married life (I guess it’s not unfortunate since he is happily married) I went to the live in retreat at Theological College in Washington, DC and I liked it. I am hoping to be able to go to a retreat at St. Mary’s at some point.

Anyway, that’s where that’s at for now. I am doing lots of praying over this and I am praying the Holy Spirit guides me in whatever decision I make.

Can you post the information on Saint Mary’s seminary please? I wonder if they have a problem with STUDENT loans? (my only debt). I hate to mention it but it’s my reality. I wonder which seminaries in the USA help candidates that may have this problem. Many well had to get a loan in order to pay for college. It’s a reality.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

I am pleased to hear of your Call to Vocation. Thank God for that!

I am wondering what spirituality is part of your natural God given character. You have probably done this already, but read the lives of the Saints and see which Saint grips your heart strings.

Also which Gospel or book of Sacred Scripture speaks most openly to you when you prayerfully read it? For example, if it is the Book of Kings, the Prophet Elijah, or The Gospel of St Luke, the Marian Gospel you may be drawn in your spirituality towards the Carmelite order.

If you desire poverty above all else, it may well be the Franciscan order for you!

All orders are deeply rooted in Scripture. Read Sacred Scripture and ask the Holy Spirit to come to you and show you what is truly in your heart.

You say a certain piece of Scripture spoke to your heart, this is God communicating to your soul, which Gospel is this passage from? Find it and read the whole chapter. Meditate on it. Pray and fast for further truths from it. Then research orders that contain the particular charism of the passage from Sacred Scripture. You will be led safely to where you are meant to be.

Often souls striving in holiness are profoundly confused, especially about the nature of God and what He desires of them. Don’t worry about this,this is normal and all is made clear and you will not be in this frustrating place of discernment for long.

What are your God given talents? Are you an inspirer? Are you gentle and kind? Are you brave and fearless? Are you good at teaching and showing people things? Are you a good public speaker? Are you a people person or are you a loner? Are you a hermit?Are you a reflector, a meditator, naturally prayerful? Are you naturally a hands on helpful person? Are you artistic, techincally minded, mathematically adept etc etc? Look to what God has already given you and the time you have spent in your life prior to your call and what you have been best at during this time. Look what orders will use your talents.

God will present to you your path, you must keep listening to Him and those He has provided for you to aid your discernment. When the intuition comes, by the Power of the Holy Spirit, regarding your path of service; grasp it and try not to stall in your convictions.

I will keep your Vocation in my prayers.

God Bless you always and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Lisa_N]

Our parish recently had a deacon who was ordained a priest. He is in his 40s and said while he came late to his vocation, he believes this life experience will make him a better priest. He is a Carmelite and attended the Mt Angel seminary. So it’s not too late and in fact an older seminarian brings unique gifts. I hope you find the right place and vocation. Lisa N

 

[Petertherock]

I would like to thank everyone for their responses. I have a lot to think about and to pray about. Obviously I am not going to make any decisions overnight. After all, it has taken me 3 or 4 years already so a couple or few more years won’t hurt and in fact will probably be good. I plan to prayerfully discern God’s call through Adoration, recieving the sacraments frequently, finding and talking to a spiritual director. I am thinking of asking my pastor to be my spiritual director since he knows the most about me, and since he is not the direcor of seminarians anymore I think he would be good because since he has had that position he knows what the diocese is looking for and he can help me spiritually.

In fact one of things in our talk this morning after I brought up all my debt problems I asked him if I should mention this the next time I go to confession and he said, “That’s a good idea, lets do a confession now and pray for God’s blessing in dealing with your debt problems.” So, I got to make my confession that I wasn’t able to make this weekend and I feel good about it.

 

[Petertherock]

Another thing that makes me feel good about my monsignor is he asked if I was going on any vacations this summer. I told him I was going to a couple of concerts but I don’t want to get back into the debt trap that I am trying to get out of. He said that’s a good thing but that you also need to take vacations. You can’t just work all the time and have no recreation. He told me going to the concerts will be good for me because it will give me the break I need.

 

[misericordie]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

I am pleased to hear of your Call to Vocation. Thank God for that!

I am wondering what spirituality is part of your natural God given character. You have probably done this already, but read the lives of the Saints and see which Saint grips your heart strings.

Also which Gospel or book of Sacred Scripture speaks most openly to you when you prayerfully read it? For example, if it is the Book of Kings, the Prophet Elijah, or The Gospel of St Luke, the Marian Gospel you may be drawn in your spirituality towards the Carmelite order.

If you desire poverty above all else, it may well be the Franciscan order for you!

All orders are deeply rooted in Scripture. Read Sacred Scripture and ask the Holy Spirit to come to you and show you what is truly in your heart.

You say a certain piece of Scripture spoke to your heart, this is God communicating to your soul, which Gospel is this passage from? Find it and read the whole chapter. Meditate on it. Pray and fast for further truths from it. Then research orders that contain the particular charism of the passage from Sacred Scripture. You will be led safely to where you are meant to be.

Often souls striving in holiness are profoundly confused, especially about the nature of God and what He desires of them. Don’t worry about this,this is normal and all is made clear and you will not be in this frustrating place of discernment for long.

What are your God given talents? Are you an inspirer? Are you gentle and kind? Are you brave and fearless? Are you good at teaching and showing people things? Are you a good public speaker? Are you a people person or are you a loner? Are you a hermit?Are you a reflector, a meditator, naturally prayerful? Are you naturally a hands on helpful person? Are you artistic, techincally minded, mathematically adept etc etc? Look to what God has already given you and the time you have spent in your life prior to your call and what you have been best at during this time. Look what orders will use your talents.

God will present to you your path, you must keep listening to Him and those He has provided for you to aid your discernment. When the intuition comes, by the Power of the Holy Spirit, regarding your path of service; grasp it and try not to stall in your convictions.

I will keep your Vocation in my prayers.

God Bless you always and much love and peace to you

Teresa

Your points are both good and not so good. Is he applying for a job as an accountant/parish business manager or what? This is a vocation and where many seminaries have failed is in the supernatural aspect here of things. God calls whom he wants when he wants where he wants. The lives of the saints who were priests, are the best thing.

 

[misericordie]

Petertherock:

I would like to thank everyone for their responses. I have a lot to think about and to pray about. Obviously I am not going to make any decisions overnight. After all, it has taken me 3 or 4 years already so a couple or few more years won’t hurt and in fact will probably be good. I plan to prayerfully discern God’s call through Adoration, recieving the sacraments frequently, finding and talking to a spiritual director. I am thinking of asking my pastor to be my spiritual director since he knows the most about me, and since he is not the direcor of seminarians anymore I think he would be good because since he has had that position he knows what the diocese is looking for and he can help me spiritually.

In fact one of things in our talk this morning after I brought up all my debt problems I asked him if I should mention this the next time I go to confession and he said, “That’s a good idea, lets do a confession now and pray for God’s blessing in dealing with your debt problems.” So, I got to make my confession that I wasn’t able to make this weekend and I feel good about it.

WE are in the same boat here and our stories are the same almost.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

misericordie:

Can you post the information on Saint Mary’s seminary please? I wonder if they have a problem with STUDENT loans? (my only debt). I hate to mention it but it’s my reality. I wonder which seminaries in the USA help candidates that may have this problem. Many well had to get a loan in order to pay for college. It’s a reality.

No seminary will help you with student loans.

No seminary will accept you to study as a seminarian without a sponsoring Bishop or Religious Superior.

If you enter a diocese your student loans will be differed while you attend school. The diocese will (usually) cover the cost of the seminary and you will have to pay back half (again usually) to the diocese after you are ordained. Any college before your seminary is your responsibility.

If you look to a religious order, some of them will take over your student loan and pay it off when you make your permanent vows. If you leave before then you will have to take back your student loan.

There are a couple of seminaries that have programs for “older” vocations but, again, a seminary is just a school and you have to pay for it. As a seminarian this payment is done though the diocese or religious order.

 

[Petertherock]

David is right. My Monsignor told me that since I don’t have a degree I would have to go the student loan route for my first 4 years (actually I have about a years worth of credits already) After I get my 4 year degree the Diocese would pay for the next 2-4 years whatever it is. He also told me I would be able to difer payment on the student loan until after I was ordained. Of course as was mentioned, if I leave without being ordained the loan would be my responsibility of course.

 

[misericordie]

ByzCath:

No seminary will help you with student loans.

No seminary will accept you to study as a seminarian without a sponsoring Bishop or Religious Superior.

If you enter a diocese your student loans will be differed while you attend school. The diocese will (usually) cover the cost of the seminary and you will have to pay back half (again usually) to the diocese after you are ordained. Any college before your seminary is your responsibility.

If you look to a religious order, some of them will take over your student loan and pay it off when you make your permanent vows. If you leave before then you will have to take back your student loan.

There are a couple of seminaries that have programs for “older” vocations but, again, a seminary is just a school and you have to pay for it. As a seminarian this payment is done though the diocese or religious order.

I would have to disagree with the first part here: their are orders that do help you with loans: yes you are right: once you profess final vows however.
If a diocesan seminary is not willing to at least help a guy who is financially strapped with an education loan, then that seminary is not worth entering. I am sure if diocesan, there are a couple of seminaries that do help out.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

misericordie:

I would have to disagree with the first part here: their are orders that do help you with loans: yes you are right: once you profess final vows however.
If a diocesan seminary is not willing to at least help a guy who is financially strapped with an education loan, then that seminary is not worth entering. I am sure if diocesan, there are a couple of seminaries that do help out.

I never said a religious order would not help with student loans.

Some orders require a candidate to be free of all debt, including student loans, some don’t. Just as some orders have age limits and some don’t.

There really is no such thing as a diocesean seminary any longer. A seminary is a private institution that needs to make money. It is not their job to give a free eductation.

When you attend a seminary you are a full time student. If you enter the seminary right from college then you will not have to start payment on your student loans until 6 months after you graduate. If you enter the seminary after you have started payment on the student loans then you can rediffer the loans while in school and start repayment 6 months after you graduate.

That is life, it is not free and most, if not all, dioceses will not pay for your college and most, if not all, require you to pay them back for some of your seminary schooling. The Church is not in the business of giving a free education to all who want it.

It is important to remember that a secular (diocesean) priest does not take a vow (or make a promise) of poverty. A secular priest makes money and must pay for much of his own care.

A religious order will pay for the seminary totally and some will take over student loans, but as I said above, not all will take over student debt.

Lastly, you seem to link a seminary and a diocese. One enters as a candidate for priesthood in a diocese and the bishop sends you to the seminary. You do not just pick a seminary and enter.

Some dioceses will help out by giving a low interest loan to cover your debt so you can enter the semianry but then you have to pay them back, again, there is no free rides.

You can disagree with me all you like, you can complain about what I have said if you want, but that does not change the facts.

I have put close to 10 years into my discenment and this is what I have found out. It is your choice if you want to take what I have said or if you want to reinvent the wheel.

 

[misericordie]

ByzCath:

I never said a religious order would not help with student loans.

Some orders require a candidate to be free of all debt, including student loans, some don’t. Just as some orders have age limits and some don’t.

There really is no such thing as a diocesean seminary any longer. A seminary is a private institution that needs to make money. It is not their job to give a free eductation.

When you attend a seminary you are a full time student. If you enter the seminary right from college then you will not have to start payment on your student loans until 6 months after you graduate. If you enter the seminary after you have started payment on the student loans then you can rediffer the loans while in school and start repayment 6 months after you graduate.

That is life, it is not free and most, if not all, dioceses will not pay for your college and most, if not all, require you to pay them back for some of your seminary schooling. The Church is not in the business of giving a free education to all who want it.

It is important to remember that a secular (diocesean) priest does not take a vow (or make a promise) of poverty. A secular priest makes money and must pay for much of his own care.

A religious order will pay for the seminary totally and some will take over student loans, but as I said above, not all will take over student debt.

Lastly, you seem to link a seminary and a diocese. One enters as a candidate for priesthood in a diocese and the bishop sends you to the seminary. You do not just pick a seminary and enter.

Some dioceses will help out by giving a low interest loan to cover your debt so you can enter the semianry but then you have to pay them back, again, there is no free rides.

You can disagree with me all you like, you can complain about what I have said if you want, but that does not change the facts.

I have put close to 10 years into my discenment and this is what I have found out. It is your choice if you want to take what I have said or if you want to reinvent the wheel.

Okay, this is true in the mid-west. Take for example friend Saint Joseph’s seminary in New York City. The seminary is archdiocesan and guess what? For a couple of years thanks to good funding, it’s been free thanks also the the great leadership in this area of the great John Cardinal O’Connor (the late archbishop).
Are you surre you have investigated in a thourough way all the seminaries? Yes, you are right the diocesan priests must take care of some of their own expenses: but at the same time they are giving their services to the diocese who in turn helps with many things economically.
As per the orders, if you take the Jesuits for example, they help cover not only student loans (which is the only good thing to cover) but all personal debt (at least the USA provinces). The Benedictines, I don’t know some may.
Just some examples. A ocation is a vocation and God calls whom when where he wants, loan or no loan.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

misericordie:

Okay, this is true in the mid-west. Take for example friend Saint Joseph’s seminary in New York City. The seminary is archdiocesan and guess what? For a couple of years thanks to good funding, it’s been free thanks also the the great leadership in this area of the great John Cardinal O’Connor (the late archbishop).

Thats right, I said most dioceases. Some do pay for more than half or all of ones seminary education but I have yet to hear of a diocease that will cover the cost of the undergraduate education.

Are you surre you have investigated in a thourough way all the seminaries? Yes, you are right the diocesan priests must take care of some of their own expenses: but at the same time they are giving their services to the diocese who in turn helps with many things economically.

I guess I am not getting though but one does not pick the seminary they attend. One does in not investigate the seminary. One becomes a priest candidate in a diocease and the bishop sends you to a seminary. It is the bishop’s choice where you go but some allow the candidate to give some (name removed by moderator)ut in this.

As per the orders, if you take the Jesuits for example, they help cover not only student loans (which is the only good thing to cover) but all personal debt (at least the USA provinces). The Benedictines, I don’t know some may.
Just some examples. A vocation is a vocation and God calls whom when where he wants, loan or no loan.

I agree with both of these statements.

The Carmelites, the order I am in the application process with right now, will take over my student loan. They will pay it off when I make my permanent vows. If I do not make it to that point, I will have to take them back. Also, I need two years more of college, I will have to get student loans to pay for them, excluding any philosophy/pre-theology courses which the Carmelites will pay for, and, again, when I make permanent vows they will be paid off, otherwise I will have to pay them.

I am an example of the last thing you said. I had other debt including my student loans. I got them taken care of this year, thank God!

 

[Petertherock]

I think this is the reason we have no priests. It’s not marriage, it’s not celebacy or anything else. It’s because most people don’t have the money to put themselves through college and then through the seminary. I know I was once told in my old diocese to “come back and talk once you get a college education.” People that have the money to put themselves through college are not going to turn around and become priests.

Personally, I started work right after high school and with my debt that I built up I couldn’t afford to get any student loans or anything. The only way I am able to get any college classes in is my company that I now work for gives us free college courses (books, tuition, and everything) as one of our benefits. I don’t even think I have enough credits for 1 full year because I am only able to take one class a semester.

The diocese is going to have to do something if they want people to become priests. When I went to the vocation retreat I went to many people were in the same situation I was. I get tired of the Church crying about having no priests when they turn away good candidates who can’t afford to put themselves through school.

One thing they could do is like my company does, if you leave within a year of taking any classes you have to pay the money back for the classes. In the case of the Church if you leave the seminary then you have to pay the money back.

 

[springbreeze]

misericordie:

Your points are both good and not so good. Is he applying for a job as an accountant/parish business manager or what? This is a vocation and where many seminaries have failed is in the supernatural aspect here of things. God calls whom he wants when he wants where he wants. The lives of the saints who were priests, are the best thing.

Dear friend

No he isn’t applying for a job, but when he looks to different orders he should look to his talents, God gave them to him and He didn’t give them to him for no reason.

Perhaps, you yourself should consider this in your own discernment, Are you a people person? Are you the type of person who prefers to be concealed and alone? Are you the type of person who likes to explore, do you want to go on missionary work ? etc etc

Whatever your talents are or lack of them, I am sure God will make up where all people lack.

It really is having the courage (once having discerned) to grasp the Vocation God has so graciously gifted to you and others.

We have clashed on other threads, so your response does not surprise me, but I am addressing the original poster and for the sake of peace I would prefer it remain as such

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa