Vulgate

[seagal]

If “vulgate” is a Latin word why is it pronounced “vul-gate” (rhymes with “mate”) instead of “vul-ga-tay” (rhymes with “hat day”) ? Since in Latin the “a” alone has a short “a” sound (like mat, cat, hat) and the “e” alone has a long “a” sound (like day, hay, say).

Just something I’ve been wondering about.

 

[Boulder257]

If “vulgate” is a Latin word why is it pronounced “vul-gate” (rhymes with “mate”) instead of “vul-ga-tay” (rhymes with “hat day”) ? Since in Latin the “a” alone has a short “a” sound (like mat, cat, hat) and the “e” alone has a long “a” sound (like day, hay, say).

Just something I’ve been wondering about.

I always thought it was pronounced the second way. Guess I learned something and now I am interested in the answer as well!

 

[dmar198]

I always thought it was pronounced the second way. Guess I learned something and now I am interested in the answer as well!

Google Translate’s Latin speaker pronounces it “vool-gah-tay.” Click the speaker icon in the bottom-right corner of the box that has the word “vulgate” in it. translate.google.com/#la/en/vulgate

Probably the reason we pronounce it differently in English is because we speak English, and it has different vowel rules. We also don’t pronounce Chandelier like the French do.

Also, I usually hear vulgate pronounced “VUL-get” (rhymes with “pet”).

 

[tee_eff_em]

If “vulgate” is a Latin word why is it pronounced “vul-gate” (rhymes with “mate”) instead of “vul-ga-tay” (rhymes with “hat day”) ? Since in Latin the “a” alone has a short “a” sound (like mat, cat, hat) and the “e” alone has a long “a” sound (like day, hay, say).

Just something I’ve been wondering about.

“Vulgate” is not a Latin word* – It is an English word derived from the Latin and thus is pronounced according to English custom.

(* Okay, *vulgate *is a Latin word, but not the one you think – It is an imperative plural verb.)

tee

 

[seagal]

Google Translate’s Latin speaker pronounces it “vool-gah-tay.” Click the speaker icon in the bottom-right corner of the box that has the word “vulgate” in it. translate.google.com/#la/en/vulgate

I tried several pronunciation sites and they all said “vul-gate”, except for the Google translation site.

Probably the reason we pronounce it differently in English is because we speak English, and it has different vowel rules. We also don’t pronounce Chandelier like the French do.

That’s true, but since Latin is the language of the Church I figured we’d pronounce it according to Latin rules.

Also, I usually hear vulgate pronounced “VUL-get” (rhymes with “pet”).

I haven’t heard that one before.

“Vulgate” is not a Latin word* – It is an English word derived from the Latin and thus is pronounced according to English custom.

(* Okay, *vulgate *is a Latin word, but not the one you think – It is an imperative plural verb.)

tee

OK that makes sense. “Vulgate” means “book” in Latin (according to Google anyway). I’m guessing Vulgate in English is just the word we gave for the book that is the Latin Bible?

 

[seagal]

I always thought it was pronounced the second way. Guess I learned something and now I am interested in the answer as well!

I’m going by Jimmy Akin whom I consider an expert in all (or at least most) things Catholic [sign]Yay Jimmy![/sign] and who pronounced it “vul-gate” on an episode of Catholic Answers.

 

[ProVobis]

OK that makes sense. “Vulgate” means “book” in Latin (according to Google anyway). I’m guessing Vulgate in English is just the word we gave for the book that is the Latin Bible?

It was called the Vulgate because it was the most commonly used Latin Bible.

from Latin vulgata (editio) ‘(edition) prepared for the public,’ feminine past participle of vulgare, from vulgus ‘common people.’

Today we have the Nova Vulgata.

 

[dmar198]

OK that makes sense. “Vulgate” means “book” in Latin (according to Google anyway). I’m guessing Vulgate in English is just the word we gave for the book that is the Latin Bible?

Unfortunately, Google is terribly wrong on this point. Vulgate doesn’t mean Book, it means “common” and actually it’s the root of the English word “vulgar” – which used to mean common. The ecclesiastical writers called the Vulgate the “vulgar scriptures,” which sounds horrible in modern English, but all it meant then was that it was the Bible in the common language, which was Latin. So anyway, there’s your bit of history for the day.

 

[seagal]

Unfortunately, Google is terribly wrong on this point. Vulgate doesn’t mean Book, it means “common” and actually it’s the root of the English word “vulgar” – which used to mean common. The ecclesiastical writers called the Vulgate the “vulgar scriptures,” which sounds horrible in modern English, but all it meant then was that it was the Bible in the common language, which was Latin. So anyway, there’s your bit of history for the day.

Well there goes my trust in Google Thanks for the history and etymology lesson.

 

[tee_eff_em]

OK that makes sense. “Vulgate” means “book” in Latin (according to Google anyway). I’m guessing Vulgate in English is just the word we gave for the book that is the Latin Bible?

Unfortunately, Google is terribly wrong on this point. Vulgate doesn’t mean Book, it means “common” and actually it’s the root of the English word “vulgar” – which used to mean common. The ecclesiastical writers called the Vulgate the “vulgar scriptures,” which sounds horrible in modern English, but all it meant then was that it was the Bible in the common language, which was Latin. So anyway, there’s your bit of history for the day.

Well, it does *kinda *mean book…

The English word vulgate comes from a Latin noun phrase, Biblia vulgata. Let us dispose of *biblia *right off: It is a borrowing from the Greek and means a papyrus, a scroll, a book. The book, naturally, is the Bible.

Then there is a family of related Latin words:

• 
  *]*vulgus *a noun which means the crowd, the multitude, the common people
  *]*vulgo *is an adverb meaning commonly, generally, publicly, everywhere
  *]*vulgo, vulgare *is a verb, meaning to publish, to spread, to make known (note that first definition). From this verb is derived the perfect passive participle vulgata, describing something which has been published, ie a book.
  
  Of course, publishing, spreading, making known a book does not get very far unless it is done in the vulgar (common) language of the crowd, the multitude, the common people
  
  
  tee

 

[ProVobis]

which sounds horrible in modern English,

It’s interesting (at least to me) that Trent documents used the term “vulgari lingua” (as in “the vulgar tongue not to be used everywhere”) and Vatican II used the term “linguae vernaculae” (as in “vernacular language (or mother tongue as the translators made it) is allowed.”) One can only wonder what effect “vulgaris linguae” would have had in the Vatican II documents, especially after they commanded that Latin be preserved in the Latin rite. Seems like even in the Latin, the terms “vulgaris” and “vernacula” have different connotations, although many will say they mean the same thing.

 

[Granum_Frumenti]

That’s true, but since Latin is the language of the Church I figured we’d pronounce it according to Latin rules.

“Vulgate” is not a Latin word* – It is an English word derived from the Latin and thus is pronounced according to English custom.

The English word vulgate comes from a Latin noun phrase, Biblia vulgata.

In other words, because the Latin name for the Vulgate involves the word “Vulgata” instead of “Vulgate”–such as “Biblia Vulgata” or “Biblia Sacra Vulgata”–you should pronounce “Vulgata” as a Latin word. And as I quoted, pronounce “Vulgate” as an English word.

I’m guessing Vulgate in English is just the word we gave for the book that is the Latin Bible?

Besides agreeing with the “yes” answers that have been posted, here I’m also thinking of similar things, such as “Vertebrata” as a Latinate scientific term and “vertebrate” in English.

At least in my experience, “Vertebrata” tends to be pronounced in a “Latin enough” way, and “vertebrate” is more “English.” You will typically want to give “Vulgata” more of a flavor of “accurate [ecclesiastical] Latin,” but the feel of the difference is much the same to me.

Although English pronunciation isn’t always intuitive , what people have described as the correct English pronunciation for “Vulgate” is what I’ve read and what I’ve heard as well. I’ve seen a dictionary with a variation on the second syllable (which then rhymes with “git” instead of “gate”), but it’s not the biggest of variations.

 

[Granum_Frumenti]

Google Translate’s Latin speaker pronounces it “vool-gah-tay.” Click the speaker icon in the bottom-right corner of the box that has the word “vulgate” in it. translate.google.com/#la/en/vulgate.

(* Okay, *vulgate *is a Latin word, but not the one you think – It is an imperative plural verb.)

It’s possible that the Latin pronunciation goes like that because of this Latin word, or at least something that’s spelled the same way in this dictionary. (See the results of my “translation” queries below.)

It’s probable, I believe, that this pronunciation was not intended for the English word “Vulgate.”

“Vulgate” means “book” in Latin (according to Google anyway).

Unfortunately, Google is terribly wrong on this point.

Odd: when I use uncapitalized “vulgate” (as in the link quoted at the top of this post), I get “Book,” but when I capitalize that “Vulgate,” I get “Standard.”

*vulgo, vulgare *is a verb, meaning to publish, to spread, to make known (note that first definition). From this verb is derived the perfect passive participle vulgata, describing something which has been published, ie a book.

Because of this post, I also fed “vulgata” and “Vulgata” into Google.

Latin “Vulgata” → English “Version”
Latin “vulgata” → English “Commentary”

English “Vulgate” → “Vulgata”
English “vulgate” → “vulgata”

English “three cheers for machine translation” → “Latin” “plaudite apparatus Latin”
“Latin” “plaudite apparatus Latin” → “English” “Core machine Standard”
“English” “core machine standard” → “Latin” “Maecenas tellus eros”
“Latin” “Maecenas tellus eros” → “English” “It’s the regional economy”

Well there goes my trust in Google

 

[Granum_Frumenti]

Finally for now, a post bursting with Latin-based fun!

*vulgo, vulgare *is a verb, meaning to publish, to spread, to make known (note that first definition). From this verb is derived the perfect passive participle vulgata, describing something which has been published, ie a book.

(* Okay, *vulgate *is a Latin word, but not the one you think – It is an imperative plural verb.)

So “vulgate” as a Latin verb form would be something along the lines of “publish!” or “spread!” or “make known!” as an imperative or command directed at a plural group.

I’m having trouble thinking of other examples of this Latin “-te” form that I’d expect most people around me to know. The examples that do come to my mind are more specialized.

In a Latin class, someone may use “salvete” and “valete” as “hello” and “goodbye” when addressing plural listeners. (Yes, the “salve” in “Salve Regina” is related. Of course, it’s the singular form.)

There are also ecclesiastical usages that I wouldn’t expect most people to recognize–“Gaudete Sunday” in Advent, “Iubilate [or ‘Jubilate’] Deo” or “Laudate Dominum” as the incipit of a psalm.

The “-te” form also looks and sounds a lot like a certain form in Spanish, also in the imperative (“cállate,” “vete”), but there the history and meaning are different.

 

[tee_eff_em]

So “vulgate” as a Latin verb form would be something along the lines of “publish!” or “spread!” or “make known!” as an imperative or command directed at a plural group.

Correct!

I’m having trouble thinking of other examples of this Latin “-te” form that I’d expect most people around me to know. The examples that do come to my mind are more specialized.

In a Latin class, someone may use “salvete” and “valete” as “hello” and “goodbye” when addressing plural listeners. (Yes, the “salve” in “Salve Regina” is related. Of course, it’s the singular form.)

There are also ecclesiastical usages that I wouldn’t expect most people to recognize–“Gaudete Sunday” in Advent, “Iubilate [or ‘Jubilate’] Deo” or “Laudate Dominum” as the incipit of a psalm.

Another ecclesiastical usage is benedicite, used as a greeting among monastics even when addressing only one person.

But the most familiar example to the vulgar () of a Latin plural imperative is probably Adeste Fideles, which might be poetically rendered “O come all ye Faithful” but more accurately is “Be there, Faithful”

tee