Vulnerability of God

[sammy5358]

Hello:

I love listening to Jean Vanier speak. Recently in one of his talks he spoke about how the weakest in our society, those who are the most vulnerable, teach us that God himself is vulnerable. I had never thought of that before. I’ve only ever thought of God being Almighty and Powerful ! After pondering on this awhile, it opened up a new window in my heart. It makes God more accessible somehow. I now see and feel that when sinning I am doing direct one to one harm to him in the same way perhaps that I can hurt a human one to one. So I understand more profoundly that sinning hurts him personally if you will.

Also, it makes me closer to those people I see on the street who are vulnerable, and those in mental or physical need. God shows his vulnerability in these people and I feel a more need to aid these people as if I were helping God.

It was a very good revelation to me, and I was wondering if this was a new idea ? I have never heard the idea of God being vulnerable before in all my years of Catholic education and Catholic practice.

Any thoughts out there ?

Humbly,
Sammy

 

[empther]

I have never heard the idea of God being vulnerable before in all my years of Catholic education and Catholic practice.

That’s because God is not vulnerable.
To say he is is an anthropomorphism, an attempt to give him something of our human nature.

God gets absolutely nothing from us and cannot lose anything because of us.

This should be a comforting thought. If he is in no way weakened by anything that happens then we can depend on him one hundred percent. He will not fail us. We only have to trust him and we are safe.

 

[fhansen]

Hello:

I love listening to Jean Vanier speak. Recently in one of his talks he spoke about how the weakest in our society, those who are the most vulnerable, teach us that God himself is vulnerable. I had never thought of that before. I’ve only ever thought of God being Almighty and Powerful ! After pondering on this awhile, it opened up a new window in my heart. It makes God more accessible somehow. I now see and feel that when sinning I am doing direct one to one harm to him in the same way perhaps that I can hurt a human one to one. So I understand more profoundly that sinning hurts him personally if you will.

Also, it makes me closer to those people I see on the street who are vulnerable, and those in mental or physical need. God shows his vulnerability in these people and I feel a more need to aid these people as if I were helping God.

It was a very good revelation to me, and I was wondering if this was a new idea ? I have never heard the idea of God being vulnerable before in all my years of Catholic education and Catholic practice.

Any thoughts out there ?

Humbly,
Sammy

God’s heart is the heart of love. He’s like the father of the Prodigal, waiting patiently for His wayward creation to return home. This is what Jesus revealed and demonstrated to us-and when we’ve seen Jesus we’ve seen the Father. What God values in us and for us is what He possesses in Himself. The Beatitudes aren’t merely telling us about how we should be-they’re telling us who God is. God, amazingly, is humble.. And Jesus went on to prove this in no uncertain terms by His passion and death at the hands of sinful man, willing to undergo a most excruciatingly painful and humiliating experience if that’s what it takes to win hearts to Him. That’s who God is-never distant, aloof, and passionless in His sovereignty.

 

[NonNobisDomine]

To deny vulnerability in God is to deny that God is love.

In order to love, one has to be vulnerable.

I fully admit that this is an analogy. God is not love in the sense that we understand love, but in order for us to predicate love of God, it has to include vulnerability. Is this an anthropomorphism? Sure. But all language regarding God is anthropomorphic. We have no other language to speak about God other than anthropomorphisms. We can only grasp the word of God through the words of man. We can’t step out of our skin and somehow understand things as if we were angels.

To deny that God “gets” anything from us degrades our relationship with him. Isn’t the main image of God from Jesus that between a Father and Son? What you seem to be describing is the relationship between a slave and his master.

 

[fred_conty]

If we talk of God as a philosopher,or theologian, than God cannot tecnically be hurt.

But he is a person, in fact three persons. And to take it strictly that God cannot be touched is robbing him of his sensitivity toward us. He certainly does “feel” our love or our disinterest. Our heart is the only real thing we have that is that he gave to us. He owns everything else we have. But that heart is special and may be directed freely as we chose.
When we love him and give him our devotion, he truely is “touched” by that love. And he has said so thru his dearly beloved Son Jesus.

I believe what St. Thomas once said in reference to his works, “dry straw”, in comparrison to the real love he experienced personally.

To love and “touch” God is the wonderful previlege of our life.

Just a thought.

 

[tonyrey]

God’s heart is the heart of love. He’s like the father of the Prodigal, waiting patiently for His wayward creation to return home. This is what Jesus revealed and demonstrated to us-and when we’ve seen Jesus we’ve seen the Father. What God values in us and for us is what He possesses in Himself. The Beatitudes aren’t merely telling us about how we should be-they’re telling us who God is. God, amazingly, is humble.. And Jesus went on to prove this in no uncertain terms by His passion and death at the hands of sinful man, willing to undergo a most excruciatingly painful and humiliating experience if that’s what it takes to win hearts to Him. That’s who God is-never distant, aloof, and passionless in His sovereignty.

The very fact that God has shared His power with us and made men capable of rejecting Him in this life and for all eternity demonstrates beyond all shadow of doubt that He has made Himself vulnerable in heaven as well as on earth to diabolical curses, insults, hatred, revolt, blasphemy, desecration and repudiation of His love. If that isn’t the epitome of vulnerability what is? And if there were any doubt about the reality of evil it is dissipated by the evidence of the urge to defile and destroy all that is holy and sacred.

 

[WTSherman]

God is all powerful and we cannot even begin to marvel at his miracles! He who created the universe, we can barely understand our own world, much less draw conclusions about his intentions here on earth. To call Him vulnerable in any way is a disgrace, for He alone is perfect.

 

[Partinobodycula]

To deny vulnerability in God is to deny that God is love.

And to take it strictly that God cannot be touched is robbing him of his sensitivity toward us.

The very fact that God has shared His power with us and made men capable of rejecting Him in this life and for all eternity demonstrates beyond all shadow of doubt that He has made Himself vulnerable in heaven as well as on earth

The Beatitudes aren’t merely telling us about how we should be-they’re telling us who God is. God, amazingly, is humble..

Oftentimes in these forums I search desperately for the words to express what I feel. And failing to find them I remain silent. But there are times when I am silent, only because others have found the words for me.

This is one of those times, and I wished to express my gratitude to those who have spoken in my stead.

.

 

[tonyrey]

Oftentimes in these forums I search desperately for the words to express what I feel. And failing to find them I remain silent. But there are times when I am silent, only because others have found the words for me.

This is one of those times, and I wished to express my gratitude to those who have spoken in my stead.

We appreciate your appreciation and I’m sure I speak for the others when I say we are delighted you are with us and for us!

 

[sammy5358]

Thank You to those with positive reflections and comments. Most of you are open and wise and I appreciate your presence here. You certainly belong in this Philosophy forum.

I understand it is a difficult concept to some that the Almighty could be vulnerable in any way, but perhaps reflecting on some of the comments here as I have may assist you in
comprehending the idea.

Somehow the idea has shown me that I am a more profound participant in God’s world than I thought I was. Hard to explain, but a warmer feeling most definitely !

Humble Thanks
Sammy

 

[tonyrey]

Thank You to those with positive reflections and comments. Most of you are open and wise and I appreciate your presence here. You certainly belong in this Philosophy forum.

I understand it is a difficult concept to some that the Almighty could be vulnerable in any way, but perhaps reflecting on some of the comments here as I have may assist you in
comprehending the idea.

Somehow the idea has shown me that I am a more profound participant in God’s world than I thought I was. Hard to explain, but a warmer feeling most definitely !

Humble Thanks
Sammy

It is a humbling thought, Sammy, to realise God is “at our mercy”! Yet it is the inevitable result of sharing power with us. Otherwise it wouldn’t make sense to pray “Thy Will be done” - which implies it is not always done…

 

[DeepBlueSea]

I was reading “The Everlasting Man” today and Chesterton makes the point that god chose as his incarnation, not some great dragon, not a huge warrior. But as a simple human of low social standing born in a stable.

That came to mind too, The Everlasting Man by Chesterton. The vulnerability was evident as the baby was held by his mother in the manger, while the armies of King Herod rode above their heads look for the baby to be destroyed.

The contrast is strong: a harmless baby and an army of soldiers.

 

[tonyrey]

That came to mind too, The Everlasting Man by Chesterton. The vulnerability was evident as the baby was held by his mother in the manger, while the armies of King Herod rode above their heads look for the baby to be destroyed.

The contrast is strong: a harmless baby and an army of soldiers.

** **A vulnerability that would never be accepted by eminent sceptics whose intellectual pride would prevent them from putting themselves at the mercy of men for any reason whatsoever - given their doctrine that the self-sacrifice of Jesus was sheer folly…

 

[WTSherman]

God is the one thing that is perfect. Who would sit in judgment, even today, of the one entity who created the Universe and can humble even the greatest geniuses of all time? See how even the great scientists of our time stumble on issues such as the great distances between our stars and their never ending search for anti-matter.

 

[Strategos7771]

Another good example I got from stuff Catholics should know was in in the book of revelations where you have the slain lamb and they said the original Greek indicates that it was this pathetic little lamb that had these massive wounds in it and yet, this little lamb had seven horns meaning all powerful and seven eyes meaning all knowing. The contrast in Christ between all powerful and all vulnerable is an important one.

Another interesting one in one of their podcast was on the descent and how their is a theory that Christ suffered in hell all the torments he could have possibly suffered for god took the punishment for all of our sins and continues to take them. Thus when we sin Christ is punished along with us, in some measure the almighty is vulnerable to us. Its quite beautiful when you think about it.