Was Galileo forced to recant or else ...?

[GodHeals]

The first sentence refers back to the issue of the Pope declaring geocentrism. As the article pointed out, the Pope was not officially declaring a duly defined doctrine of any sort because he did not meet the specific qualifications of a doctrine “ex cathedra” which refers to the chair of Peter, that is, the authority of a pope.

Going back to post 50, there is the obvious difference between a major Ecumenical Church Council and the Congregation of the Index which was a committee or commission to determine any possibility of heresy in a printed book or paper. Regarding any kind of a tribunal, again, obviously, this is not a major ecumenical Church Council.

Somewhere in the past, Catholic education lost sight of the difference between an individual speaking on his own behalf and speaking on behalf of God.

So it isn’t a decree and the Church wasn’t trying to establish a decree or doctrine of geocentrism? The Church was simply telling Galileo to stay away from making a theological distinction (geocentrism verses heliocentrism) as he didn’t have the authority to push his ideas as truth and he was warned against it… sound correct?

The Church was trying to determine heresy, not make a doctrine, because the Church hasn’t, nor ever tried to, create a doctrine on geocentrism and heliocentrism, and to which one is true?

Thank you for the discussions!

 

[GodHeals]

Public Revelation refers to the time frame of Divine Revelation. “Private revelation” refers to the period, including current period, following Public Revelation. CCC 50-67 provides better information.

It seems you are making the point that all doctrine flows from and is centered? on the Eucharist.

Thank you so much for all of your help. I appreciate it!

 

[GodHeals]

The acclaimed Doctor of the Church St. Thomas Aquinas, who lived about 300 years before Galileo, commented on Aristotle’s astronomy which made the sun turn around the motionless earth as follows:

It is true that in matters of reason that do not contradict the faith the Church has always prudently been neutral. In fact - as we have been trying to explain - Galileo was not persecuted for his loosely heliocentric beliefs.

Thank you so much “Brother”! It is more about the disobedience of the vows he took. I heard that much wasn’t known about his vows or status in the church. At least from the minor research that I did. It makes sense what you are saying. If you find any documentation as to the vows Galileo took, i would like to read them.

 

[Aramis]

Could the Church ever force a disobedient clergy member to house arrest apart from civil law, if the person appeals to civil law? It is probably differed now than back then when it seems there is more? freedom (less Catholic Church authority over the flock?) to choose sin and live in disobedience.

At that time - once tonsured, a person was forever subject to canon law, and not directly subject to civil law. For a civil trial of a clerk or cleric, one had to have the bishop’s permission. There was no appeal of church law to civil, tho’ in some places, the opposite was true.

A layman of the era would not have been tried and sentenced by ecclesiastical courts - he might have been tried for heresy by the church court, excommunicated, and sent for civil trial for heresy, and sentenced by the crown’s justice.

As for ruthenianized - born into the Roman Rite, but have turned to Byzantine rite in the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church. The term is little used, but not coined by me. (I acquired it from a former pastor… likewise a Ruthenianized Roman).

 

[GodHeals]

At that time - once tonsured, a person was forever subject to canon law, and not directly subject to civil law. For a civil trial of a clerk or cleric, one had to have the bishop’s permission. There was no appeal of church law to civil, tho’ in some places, the opposite was true.

A layman of the era would not have been tried and sentenced by ecclesiastical courts - he might have been tried for heresy by the church court, excommunicated, and sent for civil trial for heresy, and sentenced by the crown’s justice.

As for ruthenianized - born into the Roman Rite, but have turned to Byzantine rite in the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church. The term is little used, but not coined by me. (I acquired it from a former pastor… likewise a Ruthenianized Roman).

Hi,
I have been looking around the web and found that he wasn’t a cleric, but a lay person. That doesn’t make too much sense to me that he would get put under house arrest if only a lay person, but i heard the Church and the State worked together at the time or something. I couldn’t imagine just any scientist, even a non-Catholic, being treated the same way. Why not excommunicate? I actually started another thread to try to figure it out.

I saw this link:

Why did Galileo get in trouble with the Church?

Many theories have been put forth over the years to explain why Galileo came into conflict with the Church. The mystery arises precisely because Galileo actually stood squarely in the long history of the Church’s support of science. Many churchmen of high standing, such as Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa, had suggested even more radical cosmologies than Galileo did; Copernicus’ work itself had been available without controversy for more than sixty years before Galileo first published his telescopic observations. Most theories explain Galileo’s problems with the Church as a clash of strong personalities; as coming from a fear that his ideas would threaten the basis of contemporary theology; or as a reaction by the Pope to the political pressures of the day.

The interpretation of the bible was certainly one of the principal contributing factors to the controversy. At the council of Trent, at the height of the protestant reformation just about twenty years before the birth of Galileo, the Catholic Church had solemnly declared that only the church could authentically interpret the bible and that private interpretation was forbidden.
vaticanobservatory.org/index.php/en/history-of-astronomy/197-the-galileo-affair

God Bless You,
Brian

 

[Aramis]

Galileo was in a Jesuit monastery for 4 years. He was studying to become a Jesuit. (He wasn’t supposed to be - he was supposed to be a mere student.) His father removed him from the Jesuit formation process during his novitiate… which formally begins with Tonsure and first profession (which is a short term profession - and begins the novitiate).

Keep in mind also - most modern authors are grossly ignorant of the clerical status of minor orders and tonsured religious prior to Vatican II. Many post reformation protestants were ignorant of it as well. It’s easy to get wrong and judge him layman when one is ignorant that there’s a third potential state.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Indeed, not only is our world flat, but it has become very flat! And, travel far enough in any one direction and you will surely fall off the edge of our world – you will fall into reality!

 

[GodHeals]

Galileo was in a Jesuit monastery for 4 years. He was studying to become a Jesuit. (He wasn’t supposed to be - he was supposed to be a mere student.) His father removed him from the Jesuit formation process during his novitiate… which formally begins with Tonsure and first profession (which is a short term profession - and begins the novitiate).

Keep in mind also - most modern authors are grossly ignorant of the clerical status of minor orders and tonsured religious prior to Vatican II. Many post reformation protestants were ignorant of it as well. It’s easy to get wrong and judge him layman when one is ignorant that there’s a third potential state.

Thank you for the information. Where did you read this information? Is there a good link you can send me with it? I don’t think that I have read what you are saying anywhere that I have looked online.

Three States are Holy Orders, Religious, and Clerical Minor Orders? And if he made Clerical Minor Order vows (chastity, obedience, poverty are for religious), were they binding on him for life… assuming only the obedience was necessary? Sorry if I am making you repeat yourself. I appreciate your help in trying to understand.

Thank you and God Bless You!

Brian

 

[Aramis]

Thank you for the information. Where did you read this information? Is there a good link you can send me with it? I don’t think that I have read what you are saying anywhere that I have looked online.

Three States are Holy Orders, Religious, and Clerical Minor Orders? And if he made Clerical Minor Order vows (chastity, obedience, poverty are for religious), were they binding on him for life… assuming only the obedience was necessary? Sorry if I am making you repeat yourself. I appreciate your help in trying to understand.

Thank you and God Bless You!

Brian

No… Before V II
1 Major Clerics
2 Minor Clerics and Religious
3 Laity.
(4 Non-Christians)

After V II
1 Major Clerics
2 Laity (including religious)
3 Non-Christians.

But noting that religious have special duties and rights in addition.

The information on Galileo’s life is from several texts I taught from (in a public school no less) about him. I do not have the titles to hand.

The information on the states is in a number of church histories… but you can find references to minor orders in the 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia
[CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Cleric]Cleric
[CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Minor Orders]Minor](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10332b.htm]Minor) Orders
[CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Tonsure]Tonsure

 

[GodHeals]

No… Before V II
1 Major Clerics
2 Minor Clerics and Religious
3 Laity.
(4 Non-Christians)

After V II
1 Major Clerics
2 Laity (including religious)
3 Non-Christians.

But noting that religious have special duties and rights in addition.

The information on Galileo’s life is from several texts I taught from (in a public school no less) about him. I do not have the titles to hand.

The information on the states is in a number of church histories… but you can find references to minor orders in the 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia
[CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Cleric]Cleric

[CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Minor Orders]Minor](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10332b.htm]Minor) Orders
[CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Tonsure]Tonsure

Thank you for all of your help! I appreciate it! Have a Blessed Lenten Season and Holy Triduum! Brian