Was I in the wrong here?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Unsubscribing.

 

[Elena321]

I agree that the word is not offensive, per se, but I think the example of St. Paul also applies:

*Now food will not bring us closer to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, nor are we better off if we do. But make sure that this liberty of yours in no way becomes a stumbling block to the weak. If someone sees you, with your knowledge, reclining at table in the temple of an idol, may not his conscience too, weak as it is, be “built up” to eat the meat sacrificed to idols? Thus through your knowledge, the weak person is brought to destruction, the brother for whom Christ died. When you sin in this way against your brothers and wound their consciences, weak as they are, you are sinning against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I may not cause my brother to sin. *1 Cor. 8:8-13

C.S. Lewis had a good insight on the use the Evil One can make of these matters in The Screwtape Letters (Letter XVI):
You would think they could not fail to see the application. You would expect to find the “low” churchman genuflecting and crossing himself lest the weak conscience of his “high” brother should be moved to irreverence, and the “high” one refraining from these exercises lest he should betray his “low” brother into idolatry. And so it would have been but for our ceaseless labour. Without that the variety of usage within the Church of England might have become a positive hotbed of charity and humility.

If you are aware that a certain kind of language seems to someone else to be desensitizing to obscenity and you have no compelling reason to use it, then why not avoid using it? One must use judgement, of course, since sometimes one can be “enabling” a bad habit rather than encouraging some good end–not to mention that we do have a positive need for correct terminology for human body parts–but giving in to the sensitivities to others is usually a kind thing to be willing to do, even if you think they’re being a bit too sensitive.

Extending undeserved kindnesses is good habit, after all. What is mercy, if not that, particularly since we all inflict unintended harm from time to time ourselves? Following that rule, the OP’s post, though taken as an offense, would be written off as unintentional and simply pointed out as a feedback that would be wanted. The OP, meanwhile, might find the feedback a bit too sensitive, but would be willing to assure no harm was intended and would re-word to make everyone in the discussion as comfortable as possible. Everyone thinks they are in the right, but since they all give each other room and the best reading, they all also sow accord instead of discord, and everyone feels more at ease, too.

Thanks a lot Easterjoy.
If I knew that poster in real life and knew they were sensitive to certain descriptions/viewed them all the same with disregard to context then I definitely would have used a more carefully worded description of the example shorts around them.
If they had of said nicely/kindly to me (on the thread) “that descriptions a bit too detailed for me,I’m personally easily affected by descriptive words,would you mind changing it to something more general?”
I would have said “oh sorry,yes no worries,I will change it” (even if I couldn’t fully understand why they felt that way).

When someone goes puts my threads and then puts them together and then makes an assumption on my character when it’s only a ‘snippet’ of my life I don’t think that’s very fair & I wouldn’t do that to others
What you say is correct though and I should be able to extend kindness even if somebody hurts me and that’s what I’m praying to be able to do.

Just to clarify regarding the statement made to me “believe me when I say something can be obscene without provoking sexual feelings. An obscene thing is not pure,and holy…whether it’s an image or written or spoken word. It certainly is uncharitable to expose others to things like this…You can read 1 Peter 1:15-16… if you doubt this.”
-does the passage in Peter regarding being Holy mean that for me to be Holy I also have to take offence to things and perceive them as obscene even if the person is not writing them in an obscene context and has genuine/innocent context?
I’m not sure I want to be this way…

 

[Elena321]

OP, the person only person in the wrong on that thread was the one who implied that you were just here to stir up trouble. Some people have been here so long that they think that they are experts at identifying trolls. I agree that some of the responses that you have received have been less than charitable and, “that’s just the Internet” is no excuse. Also, try the Ignore feature: it’s a blessing.

Could you tell me how I find the ignore feature please?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Ever been to the States, Elena?. We speak English, but we dont speak the same language.
There is also a whole bunch of cultural norms to negotiate in any communication.

Then personal sensitivities.

And traditions.

You may find you are also struggling with the pre conversion you, and the post conversion you.
Our behaviours and values start to change, as we progress on our journey home to heaven.
As they should. And this should occur for everyone, not just recently converted.

Even cradle catholics should be changing as they are immersed deeper into God on their journey home.

As far as knowing whatis morally repungent. You will discern these things along the journey.
Today it might seem fine to wear bikinis at the beach, and swear like a trooper. Next month , it might begin to seem a little off.

 

[redbetta]

Could you tell me how I find the ignore feature please?

On the home page at the top, where it says Profile, click and go to Control Panel to Edit Ignore List. There, you can search members you want to Ignore. Another way of adding someone to you Ignore List is to click on their name, go to their profile and, under their membership status, should be a spot that says User Lists. Click on the down narrow next to it and it should give you the option to add to Contact, Friends, or Ignore lists.

I hope that was helpful. I’m writing this right before bed, so if I messed something up, you can ask at the How CAF Works subforum.

 

[Elena321]

Don’t sweat it. But realize other people sweat it just as much as you do, or more. People can be quite emotional already before they start to get emotional in a thread. A lot of negative emotions is involved in online forums. Quite like in ‘real life’, but the difference is that in ‘real life’ people are more likely to defend you; online, people are more likely whomever is attacking you, so you have the impression of being alone, abandoned, or even that everybody agrees with the attacker. That, however, is unlikely to be the case.

There’s always a probability of misunderstanding, too. It’s good to ask people what they mean and make sure before you conclude it must be something bad. A lot of those attacks come from people jumping to conclusions.

Yes,I think that’s part of it.On the forums/threads people can often just be focused on what they themselves are writing,so when that “one or two” persons come along and respond in a less than kind way,it can feel like you are alone,if nobody else is mentioning anything regarding it.
This is especially true if the “less than kind” answer is said with authority or a lot of confidence.
I’m trying to keep in mind that even if someone doesn’t say something externally, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they agree with the “approach” of the “less than kind answer/er”. Thanks.

 

[Elena321]

Ever been to the States, Elena?. We speak English, but we dont speak the same language.
There is also a whole bunch of cultural norms to negotiate in any communication.

Then personal sensitivities.

And traditions.

You may find you are also struggling with the pre conversion you, and the post conversion you.
Our behaviours and values start to change, as we progress on our journey home to heaven.
As they should. And this should occur for everyone, not just recently converted.

Even cradle catholics should be changing as they are immersed deeper into God on their journey home.

As far as knowing whatis morally repungent. You will discern these things along the journey.
Today it might seem fine to wear bikinis at the beach, and swear like a trooper. Next month , it might begin to seem a little off.

I’m thankful that I at least didn’t use the term budgie smugglers

Im Baptised Catholic (European background family but not really practicing or Church attending) so I think I’m struggling with both my own values/behaviour changes but also struggling between discerning what needs to be a genuine behaviour change versus how someone tells me (wrongly) that i should/should not be simply because they have a personal distaste or are overly sensitive to something (if that makes sense).

For example,does Holiness mean I have to lose my sense of humour and start feeling offended at the term “budgie smugglers”?
Does it mean I have to stop finding Kath and Kim funny and start finding it offensive because some of the references may be a bit inappropriate?
I accept (sometimes resistantly) that progressing on my journey with God means some behaviours start to change but does it mean I have to lose my sense of humour and become offended at open or frank speech?

Can I put down the misunderstanding on my sewing thread as cultural differences or does becoming closer to God mean that I have to become this way too?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

I’m thankful that I at least didn’t use the term budgie smugglers

Im Baptised Catholic (European background family but not really practicing or Church attending) so I think I’m struggling with both my own values/behaviour changes but also struggling between discerning what needs to be a genuine behaviour change versus how someone tells me (wrongly) that i should/should not be simply because they have a personal distaste or are overly sensitive to something (if that makes sense).

For example,does Holiness mean I have to lose my sense of humour and start feeling offended at the term “budgie smugglers”?
Does it mean I have to stop finding Kath and Kim funny and start finding it offensive because some of the references may be a bit inappropriate?
I accept (sometimes resistantly) that progressing on my journey with God means some behaviours start to change but does it mean I have to lose my sense of humour and become offended at open or frank speech?

Can I put down the misunderstanding on my sewing thread as cultural differences or does becoming closer to God mean that I have to become this way too?

You’d be safer with budgie smugglers
I am European derived baby baptised Catholic too. Hit teens, ignored God for the next few decades quite effectively.

I came back to the Church in The Year of Mercy. I have changed a lot.
My usual descriptive included the f bomb etc. I did draw the line at C unless really Pee’d.

I am constantly told now I am a lunatic, mentally ill, so drastically changed, etc. I know God is doing something right in my life.

I am quite surprised at the Behaviour in my Church of long standing Catholics.
I will start a thread later tonight for us converts . Share our experiences. It might help you heaps.

Just today, for eg, I had to tell a decades long , on and off again ex, who just had a heart attack, and i thought i should visit at home,

’ rethinking this, because I cant offer you anythingnsexually anymore, just putting it out there’

He responds, no worries, it would be great just to catch up. And surprisingly he is very supportive of my discerning the holy life/nun gig.

I dont think we should lose our humour. A decades long catholic was telling me of her dislike for our modern priest, he had done xyz. I said, go to confession and confess this anger and issue to him imagine that on kath n kim!

Oh and then there are the rosary wars in my cathedral. My Gosh!

These people not living the Catholic dream could do with a good dose of the Holy ugly stick.

But in all seriousness, its gradual. A gradual change. And you are on the right path. A year ago you may have sewed up latex budgie smuggles complete with fluffy dice crown jewels, all the while swearing like a trooper everytime the bobbin ran out, and getting pissed to boot!

Now you are questioning and discerning, not just the fluffy dice crown jewels bling

 

[Elena321]

Ahhh…i see its bash mommy k day in family life forum…

This is a blatant example of being uncharitable…starting a thread to judge another poster…sheesh.

Thinking using the term omfg is ok, demandimg that others need to soften comments that object to this…then describing a males sex organs on the front of spandex pants for a gay pride parade…and now this…and nd I’m the bad person here, because she links to one portion of all of this…

One way filtering…the op can post whatever nastiness comes into her mind, and after telling her not to, she keeps doing it.and then here, says if she cant, she does not want to be catholic. Yikes. And then trashing me for trying to help her. And painting me like a shriveled up old judgemental prude…lol…

I reported this thread and op. I can deal with alot…but this is waaaaay over the top. I usually ignore this op too. How stupid of me to get involved with this nonsense.

But you live and learn…Elena you won. You stole my peace for a nanosecond. No need to keep the score card rolling.

I didn’t make the thread with the intent for anyone to judge you.Thats why I didn’t mention names.
I’m just trying to get clarity from others whether I personally had done something wrong as my peace has been disturbed.
I wanted to get an understanding of what Holiness meant (in regards to the situation) and it was hard to do so without posting some background information of what had led to my thinking/feelings.

“because she links to one portion of all of this…”- All my threads and answers are public and can be viewed by anyone.

I’m sure I’d find you a nice person “in real life”.
I don’t want to “win”. I’m just looking for clarity and to further my understanding. If “winning” was what interested me,then I would consider that I had misunderstood the gospel teachings.
All the best,Elena.

 

[pianistclare]

Unsubscribing.

+1

Posting history shows a pattern here.
Unsubscribing as well.

 

[mommy_k]

+1

Posting history shows a pattern here.
Unsubscribing as well.

+3
Unsubscribing.

 

[EasterJoy]

Agreed. I don’t like to see the OP feeling so much guilt, however. We can’t control how others react to us, though we of course can change our actions out of mercy to prevent future misunderstandings.

Guilt feelings are like a smoke alarm, not the fire. They can go off for a reason other than a fire, and when there is a real fire, they can fail to go off. It is worth training ourselves to see them that way. They should never be confused with the promptings of a well-formed conscience, but it can be the work of a lifetime to get there!

 

[EasterJoy]

Thankyou everyone.
The crisis of faith part might seem extreme but isn’t because I believe any less in Jesus now or His teachings.
It’s rather because that poster stated to be Catholic and Holy you have to be this certain way-offended and not speak openly or naturally-and this to me seems I would have to be irrational/out of touch with everyday life.
By using a Bible passage to back up her view and stating to me that my context doesn’t matter,it has made me question whether maybe my own understanding of what it means to be a Catholic is wrong.

I was told by the poster that my writing (the pants example) was the catalyst for their uncharitable comment towards me but I don’t understand why wouldn’t context matter?
There is a thread on CAF about whether “toplessness” is sinful and it involves mention of body parts) and it is many pages long and everyone seemed to be answering quite kindly and courteously and I didn’t see anyone making assumptions about the OP’s character or stating by posting the thread that the OP was “not being charitable by using graphic imagery” or that’s its obscene…etc

I tried turning the other cheek,I tried praying (and still do) but i still let it “get to me” eventually as I don’t understand why I’m being told by the poster that I was receiving a “rebuke” when I wasn’t trying to post anything obscene!
My context was in regard to the limits of my sewing & trying to clarify the moral standpoint of the job that I had been requested to undertake (Gay pride parade) -nothing else & I feel it was “blown up”/misinterpreted to be something else.
My thread stopped being about my sewing and became about my “perceived” character.

If the poster is right,and it’s not Holy to discuss things openly,then won’t this potentially deter some people from asking questions openly on CAF?
I’d hate to think that s

Thanks a lot Easterjoy.
If I knew that poster in real life and knew they were sensitive to certain descriptions/viewed them all the same with disregard to context then I definitely would have used a more carefully worded description of the example shorts around them.
If they had of said nicely/kindly to me (on the thread) “that descriptions a bit too detailed for me,I’m personally easily affected by descriptive words,would you mind changing it to something more general?”
I would have said “oh sorry,yes no worries,I will change it” (even if I couldn’t fully understand why they felt that way).

When someone goes puts my threads and then puts them together and then makes an assumption on my character when it’s only a ‘snippet’ of my life I don’t think that’s very fair & I wouldn’t do that to others
What you say is correct though and I should be able to extend kindness even if somebody hurts me and that’s what I’m praying to be able to do.

Just to clarify regarding the statement made to me “believe me when I say something can be obscene without provoking sexual feelings. An obscene thing is not pure,and holy…whether it’s an image or written or spoken word. It certainly is uncharitable to expose others to things like this…You can read 1 Peter 1:15-16… if you doubt this.”
-does the passage in Peter regarding being Holy mean that for me to be Holy I also have to take offence to things and perceive them as obscene even if the person is not writing them in an obscene context and has genuine/innocent context?
I’m not sure I want to be this way…

*If I knew that poster in real life and knew they were sensitive to certain descriptions/viewed them all the same with disregard to context then I definitely would have used a more carefully worded description…
*
This is real life, you are learning to know her, and you see she is upset. You do not have to conclude she is “right” in terms of having jurisdiction to correct you. You only have to see she knows how she takes things and is telling you.

You will suffer no harm if you simply say, “I’m sorry, I had no intention of hurting you. No, they aren’t asking for anything like that. The shorts are actually something the girls at the local Catholic high school would be allowed to wear on the track team, but not at school. Does that help?”

Do you see what I am saying? If you accept that MommyK might really become a real friend of yours when you know each other better and she accepts you, then like the friends you see face-to-face the two of you will practice give and take.

This is a very public board. It can feel as if we’re having a conversation with just two or three people, but like coffee and doughnuts after Mass, it is a place where anyone in the parish might be standing behind you, including the children or who knows who. It is also a more-or-less permanent record. What we write here does not go away, but sinks down into the history of our threads. You’d think after awhile no one would read them, but then someone resurrects a three-year old thread and you realize that people do slog through the archives from time to time.

It isn’t a bad idea to post as if the question-and-answer were going to be posted on the EWTN web site with our names and addresses attached.

Having said that, there is no reason to feel bad. You meant no harm. You were trying to get a question asked. I only mean to try to look at things from this potential new friend’s perspective, and be willing to make adjustments just because you want to make her feel more comfortable.

After all, if all goes well, the two of you are going to be spending eternity together. You may as well figure out how to be a bit of bliss for the other right now.