Was I out of line?

[Detroit_Sue]

My nephew and his wife just entered the Church this past Easter Vigil. They still have much to learn (as do we all).

My nephew banged into his wife’s van and dented the hatch pretty good. They took the van to a collision shop, who said they would cut her $500 deductible in half. OK, that’s been done, we do it in our office sometimes.

What bugs me is the collision guy told her that he put in a charge to replace the hatchback door, but he’s fixing it instead, which is why he could afford to cut her deductible.

My niece called me today complaining that the guy told her the van would be done in 4 days, and here it’s 8, and she’s cutting the amount she pays him proportionally by the day. When she told me about the collision guy, I got nauseuous. Before I knew what came out of my mouth, I told her, “That’s fraud. That’s a sin, and you were in on it. That’s cheating the insurance company.” Well, she got upset, & tried to defend herself saying that she never thought of it that way, and it was the auto guy’s doing, etc. I told her she at least needed to speak to the priest about it, if she was unsure it was a sin. She is not a stupid woman. She is a medical professional and is really quite absorbed by thoughts about money & “I want, I want.”

When I told my husband what transpired, he told me that I had to be very careful, because I will be labeled the one who points out every sin in every person. Personally, I believed I owed her information about this illicit transaction. Should I have said nothing? Said something different? If something like this arises again, I want to be able to know what to do. Thanks.

 

[MrS]

Since when is following your conscience out of line. Just say “I’m sorry if YOU think I was out of line… I just spit out the truth as a matter of habit. It is my truth, and I did not mean to offend you. Hope I didn’t.”

 

[La_Chiara]

Detroit Sue–You were absolutely right. Though it sounds like you feel you may have said it too harshly. Most people don’t like to be told that their behavior is wrong. So she probably was offended to be confronted with the immorality of her actions. You might apologize for how you said it, for not putting it more delicately. It is really interesting that her moral code penalizes the repairman for being late in performing the work and is perfectly fine that he is doing something immoral (by lying) to save her money! Rather ironic!

 

[otm]

Yeah, you came across like Attila the Hun…

There are many ways to express concern about the morality, or lack thereof, of a given act. One is to nuc’em, like you did.

Another is to say the same thing, with a touch of charity; " gosh, that makes me a little uncomfortable; it feels like cheating the insurance company".

Another way is to ask questions; however, it takes longer; it requires some fairly intelligent questioning that isn’t transparent (people see through a lot of questions, especially when they are shaped to give a specific answer; it is called leading); and it might result in the discovery that she can’t provide the answer needed, because she is blind or ignorant of the moral issue. But that last part at least shows she committed no sin, as sin requires knowledge.

Jumping in like you did is probably going to do more harm than good, if for no other reason than that she cuts off communication with you as she feels you are standing in judgement of her. Which, by the way, from her standpoint, would not appear to be too far off the mark…

 

[NightRider]

otm:

Yeah, you came across like Attila the Hun…

There are many ways to express concern about the morality, or lack thereof, of a given act. One is to nuc’em, like you did.

Another is to say the same thing, with a touch of charity; " gosh, that makes me a little uncomfortable; it feels like cheating the insurance company".

Another way is to ask questions; however, it takes longer; it requires some fairly intelligent questioning that isn’t transparent (people see through a lot of questions, especially when they are shaped to give a specific answer; it is called leading); and it might result in the discovery that she can’t provide the answer needed, because she is blind or ignorant of the moral issue. But that last part at least shows she committed no sin, as sin requires knowledge.

Jumping in like you did is probably going to do more harm than good, if for no other reason than that she cuts off communication with you as she feels you are standing in judgement of her. Which, by the way, from her standpoint, would not appear to be too far off the mark…

Well put! I’m not sure it was auntie’s business to judge her niece-in-law! I understand it is difficult to refrain from judgement at times, but it is the wiser course (easier said than done, I’m afraid). Something to let go of…

 

[Timidity]

As others have said, you were right to say it, but you probably could have had a different approach. But it sounds like you “snapped” and that it wasn’t your intention to come across the way you did. We all have off days, and this was just yours, otherwise I’m sure your would have found a gentler way to nudge her conscience a little.

I also agree that an apology (for the delivery, not the message) might be in order. Of course you’ll have to be careful about the way you word that, because half-apologies can come across as “a slap in the face” sometimes. And of course, in some relationships, apologies can cause more harm than healing, so you’re a better judge of what’s appropriate there than I am!
Detroit Sue:

Well, she got upset, & tried to defend herself saying that she never thought of it that way, and it was the auto guy’s doing, etc.

Sometimes, after making your point, you really have to give the other person a graceful exit from the situation!
Detroit Sue:

She…is really quite absorbed by thoughts about money & “I want, I want.”

We all have our own particular vices Unfortunately for her, hers seems to be one that manifests itself in a way that others can observe it.

 

[Toni]

Sometimes the Holy Spirit plants that person in your path because you are the only one to stand up and say something.

St. Paul did say warn them once, so you ignore an opportunity to plant a seed of truth, not me.
My son in law copies DVD’s and I told my daughter that it was wrong and it is stealing, I had to plant the seed and she will not watch any of these copied dvd’s any longer.
Sometimes you have to stand for what is right even if it means alienating others. There is a nice way but under the circumstances I think you blurted out the truth.
Good for you! Who else would have? If nothing else it gave her something to think about.
I do believe the Holy Spirit sends people to you for this reason also. Not to be holier than thou, but why would your niece tell the Deacons wife this information if she did not see that it was wrong to begin with?
She obviously did not know and was taken back by your reaction. We must plant the seeds of truth, there are just to many crooks out there and we all pay for them!
You could write a simple apology just letting her know that you were shocked and you were taught better, and unfortunately lost it because you were shocked others did not realize that it was just another form of stealing!

 

[Chris_in_Mich]

Detroit Sue:

What bugs me is the collision guy told her that he put in a charge to replace the hatchback door, but he’s fixing it instead, which is why he could afford to cut her deductible.

I’m a former claims rep, let me come to the defence of this young lady. The insurance company in this case would owe your nephews wife to put the van back into the condition it was prior to the accident, this *probably *included a new hatch, or they wouldn’t have paid it. The insured is under no obligation to the insurance company to have the repairs done. In other words she can do what she wants with the money, if the collision shop tells her they can repair it for less, or fix the damaged part, all I would tell her as a claims rep is that I owe her and will pay her for the replacment of the hatch, what she actually has done is between her and the repair shop, though she’s on her own if she’s unhappy with the workmanship of the repairs as you stated she is. Fraud wouldn’t cross my mind, and I wouldn’t consider this any type of ethical issue on her part.
Detroit Sue:

Before I knew what came out of my mouth, I told her, “That’s fraud. That’s a sin, and you were in on it. That’s cheating the insurance company.”

That seems like rather quick judgement. I can see where depending on how she communicated the message to you, you might think she participated in fraud, and judging from the responses thus far, the way you forwarded the message certainly made it sound like it was her intent to cheat. However she said she didn’t think of it that way, I’d give her the benefit of the doubt, call her back try to find out the intent here and apologize if appropriate.

Let me know if this makes any sense

 

[dhgray]

NO you were not out of line. It is as simple as you were pointing out that your nephew and neice are a party to insurance fraud and are breaking the law.

 

[Detroit_Sue]

Well, to all of you, thank you. I was afraid I was too harsh. I wll be seeing her tonight, and will use the opportunity to apologized for my delivery. Chris, I didn’t know that auto insurance worked like that. I am a medical biller, and at this end of the spectrum, billing for services not performed is blatantly illegal. Our family dentist went to the Federal Pen for scamming Blue Cross of $300,000. I reacted from my own understanding.

After I apologize, I won’t say anything more about it.

God bless you all!
Sue

 

[otm]

dhgray:

NO you were not out of line. It is as simple as you were pointing out that your nephew and neice are a party to insurance fraud and are breaking the law.

They would be guilty of insurance fraud if they made a claim that the door was damaged and it wasn’t, or if the door was previously damaged seriously, and this accident caused only a minor continuation of the damage, and they claimed that this accident caused it all.

By your logic, if they had filed a claim for the damages that occured, and received a check, and did not repair the door, they would be committing fraud.

They are given cash which suffices to put them back in the position that they would have been had there been no accident. What they choose to do with that cash is entirely their business.

If you file a claim for damamges, and the generally accepted trade practice is that it costs “X” to repair, you are not going to get “X+” because someone charges more. You can still get it repaired at that shop, but the shop either has to agree to lower their prices, or you make up the difference.

And if you pre-ordered a brand new model car and paid the dealer full price before delivery, and after you got it it was totaled in an accident, and you find that it was a hot model and is selling now for more than you paid, you may well be entitled to more than you paid; that is not fraud. It is replacement of what you lost.

None of which changes the fact that Detroit sue came across like Attila’s red-headed sister (Sorry, Sue!).

 

[Exporter]

Chris, Thanks.

By Chris:I’m a former claims rep, let me come to the defence of this young lady. The insurance company in this case would owe your nephews wife to put the van back into the condition it was prior to the accident, this *probably *included a new hatch, or they wouldn’t have paid it. The insured is under no obligation to the insurance company to have the repairs done. In other words she can do what she wants with the money, if the collision shop tells her they can repair it for less, or fix the damaged part, all I would tell her as a claims rep is that I owe her and will pay her for the replacment of the hatch, what she actually has done is between her and the repair shop, though she’s on her own if she’s unhappy with the workmanship of the repairs as you stated she is. Fraud wouldn’t cross my mind, and I wouldn’t consider this any type of ethical issue on her part.

Yes, this is the way it works. I know that the insurance adjuster will specify an amount the Ins. Co. will pay an individual for a repair. A few years ago I had a collision to the left front of a van. Allstate sent me a check for about $1150. I shopped around and got it fixed for $950. It was just fine.

The daughter-in-law was surprised that the repairman would “give her a break”. She jumped at it. Actually the repaired hatch would be as good as a new one. But I think she is presumptious to think she can dictate how much she can take off the bill. The law says if she doesn’t pay, the repairman can hold the car.

 

[spurgeon]

My nephew banged into his wife’s van and dented the hatch pretty good. They took the van to a collision shop, who said they would cut her $500 deductible in half. OK, that’s been done, we do it in our office sometimes.

There is a general rule regarding the making of corrections to other people’s conduct.The rule is that you do not make a** negative** statement to or about anybody unless the outcome will be, in your considered opinion, an improvement on the present situation, ie,you will get the mistake corrected rather than start conflict.
it is for this reason that you do not embark on such a venture unless you know that it will be taken in good spirit.Ask your good self Will this start a polarized contest without ever doing any good? only you know your nephew and waht the likely snario is going to be.

 

[grammylou]

I think anytime you begin telling someone else when they need to go talk to their priest about their sins, you are probably out-of-line. I agree with most of the other posts. If you felt the transaction was dishonest-even if it wasn’t in the end per the claims adjustors, you had a right to state that. After that, you were over-bearing and judgemental and owe the young lady an apology for that part of the dialogue.

Good luck.

Perhaps you need to go speak to your priest about your need to rush to judgement. (smile)

I hope you see that such a statement fairly screams for self-defense.