B
Believe_85
Guest
The following is my explanation of why women can’t be priests and the response I received from a classmate in an online New Testament College course with a debate forum much like this one. Tell me, was I rude? I tried to be diplomatic, but it was difficult.
Me
oint 1: Holy orders are a sacrament.
Point 2: The sacrament of Holy orders must include the right matter in order to be valid. As water is the only acceptable matter that can be used in baptism instituted by Jesus as a sacrament when he began baptising with the Holy Spirit, a man is the only matter acceptable to use for the sacrament of Holy Orders. This is based on the Pentacost. Being breathed on by the Divine Jesus as he says “receive the Holy Spirit” is extremely significant. He also told them, “As the Father has sent me, so I send you” and “whatever sins you retain are retained, whatever sins you forgive are forgiven”. All of this together in John 20:19–23 is Jesus granting the authority of the priesthood to the Apostles. This was the first Holy Orders, the Apostles made priests, ministers of sacraments.
Point 3: Jesus was a nonconformist, yet he only ordained men. To make the argument that Jesus was for equal rights is true, but then ordination is not a right. It’s a sacrament, again requiring the right matter to be valid. Jesus was not afraid to go against the grain, he even died for his beliefs. If he wanted to make the matter of the sacrament a woman, child, animal, balloon, he would have. He didn’t.
Point 4: The authority of the Church comes from Jesus. Because Jesus only breathed the Holy Spirit on men, men are the only thing the Church can bestow this sacrament on. The Catholic Church can never ordain women as priests.
Girl Responding: With all due respect, I’m not sure that more clarity on what the Bible and your church has taught you to say is where the confusion is, I think your missing the point that by following everything word for word in a book that was written thousands of years ago has inabled you to see that it is not impossible for women to be of leadership roles in the church or anywhere else, your only saying it’s impossible becuase that is whatyou’ve been taught by human beings , and that’s alright, but remember that the true God of our world holds women higher than the men that have dictated society for years.
And my response to her (was I rude?):
I am just explaining the Catholic perspective and the fact that the priesthood never ever will change because of the nature of Catholic Sacraments. I’m not even making the argument that everyone should agree with Catholic Church. I’m just explaining why women priests will never happen in my church.
I am troubled by your post because I feel you have mispoken against me and I don’t think you meant to do so.
I am not clouded by “what I’ve been taught by human beings”. I’m not an idiot, walking around brainwashed, like I never question things about my faith. I’ve had six years of college in Applied science. I know what it is to contemplate a question using reason and logic. I did not respond with “what the church taught me to say”. That is extremely offensive. It took me hours to research everything for my post to make sure I explained the issue as clearly as I could. I feel I delineated how the sacrament of Holy Orders came to be and why it will never include women priests. Catholic history is well documented and their theology ancient and profound. There is great ignorance about Catholic exegesis in your suggestion that I follow the bible word for word. Protestants follow Sola Scriptura, not Catholics.
I offered a history lesson and you responded with your perception about me, a perception which is clearly biased against male leadership in the Catholic Church which I will say again, was Jesus’ decision no one else’s. With all due respect, I haven’t missed the point, you have missed mine. But no hard feelings.
Me
oint 1: Holy orders are a sacrament.Point 2: The sacrament of Holy orders must include the right matter in order to be valid. As water is the only acceptable matter that can be used in baptism instituted by Jesus as a sacrament when he began baptising with the Holy Spirit, a man is the only matter acceptable to use for the sacrament of Holy Orders. This is based on the Pentacost. Being breathed on by the Divine Jesus as he says “receive the Holy Spirit” is extremely significant. He also told them, “As the Father has sent me, so I send you” and “whatever sins you retain are retained, whatever sins you forgive are forgiven”. All of this together in John 20:19–23 is Jesus granting the authority of the priesthood to the Apostles. This was the first Holy Orders, the Apostles made priests, ministers of sacraments.
Point 3: Jesus was a nonconformist, yet he only ordained men. To make the argument that Jesus was for equal rights is true, but then ordination is not a right. It’s a sacrament, again requiring the right matter to be valid. Jesus was not afraid to go against the grain, he even died for his beliefs. If he wanted to make the matter of the sacrament a woman, child, animal, balloon, he would have. He didn’t.
Point 4: The authority of the Church comes from Jesus. Because Jesus only breathed the Holy Spirit on men, men are the only thing the Church can bestow this sacrament on. The Catholic Church can never ordain women as priests.
Girl Responding: With all due respect, I’m not sure that more clarity on what the Bible and your church has taught you to say is where the confusion is, I think your missing the point that by following everything word for word in a book that was written thousands of years ago has inabled you to see that it is not impossible for women to be of leadership roles in the church or anywhere else, your only saying it’s impossible becuase that is whatyou’ve been taught by human beings , and that’s alright, but remember that the true God of our world holds women higher than the men that have dictated society for years.
And my response to her (was I rude?):
I am just explaining the Catholic perspective and the fact that the priesthood never ever will change because of the nature of Catholic Sacraments. I’m not even making the argument that everyone should agree with Catholic Church. I’m just explaining why women priests will never happen in my church.
I am troubled by your post because I feel you have mispoken against me and I don’t think you meant to do so.
I am not clouded by “what I’ve been taught by human beings”. I’m not an idiot, walking around brainwashed, like I never question things about my faith. I’ve had six years of college in Applied science. I know what it is to contemplate a question using reason and logic. I did not respond with “what the church taught me to say”. That is extremely offensive. It took me hours to research everything for my post to make sure I explained the issue as clearly as I could. I feel I delineated how the sacrament of Holy Orders came to be and why it will never include women priests. Catholic history is well documented and their theology ancient and profound. There is great ignorance about Catholic exegesis in your suggestion that I follow the bible word for word. Protestants follow Sola Scriptura, not Catholics.
I offered a history lesson and you responded with your perception about me, a perception which is clearly biased against male leadership in the Catholic Church which I will say again, was Jesus’ decision no one else’s. With all due respect, I haven’t missed the point, you have missed mine. But no hard feelings.
