Was Jesus Really a Sacrifice

[devonsams]

People often say that Jesus wasn’t really a sacrifice, because he ressurected himself after 3 days and It was all forged from the beggining by God, it was easy because he was God to support all that suffer.

It would be more exciting and virtuous if the sacrifice was really a sacrifice, that it wasn’t planned from the beggining and that Jesus did not ressurect and he would stay dead forever, then it would be the real sacrifice and the real virtuous thing.

How do I solve this problem? Because I was thinking by myself this days, and I was wondering if it was really a sacrifice? What did Jesus Sacrifice?

Thanks.

 

[JerryZ]

People often say that Jesus wasn’t really a sacrifice, because he ressurected himself after 3 days and It was all forged from the beggining by God, it was easy because he was God to support all that suffer.

It would be more exciting and virtuous if the sacrifice was really a sacrifice, that it wasn’t planned from the beggining and that Jesus did not ressurect and he would stay dead forever, then it would be the real sacrifice and the real virtuous thing.

How do I solve this problem? Because I was thinking by myself this days, and I was wondering if it was really a sacrifice? What did Jesus Sacrifice?

Thanks.

OK let’s put some perspective to this. Why God needed to make a sacrifice in the first place?

In the garden Adam and Eve ate the fruit.
God had told them " If you eat of this fruit you will surely die"

So atonement for sin is Death

Also we see from Genesis that when God instructed Moses on how to prepare the sin offerings they had to choose unblemished animals…Hint Hint!

So to atone and repair the breach caused by Adam and Eve sin we need an UMBLEMISHED HUMAN
Umblemished = Sinless

Can you see the little issue there???

The human species cannot produce a sinless sacrificial offering

Who could do that? Only God through his mercy could achieve that, he came Himself.

Jesus IS God that came to pay the price that Adam and Eve and all of us have been yoked with.

 

[ConstantineTG]

People often say that Jesus wasn’t really a sacrifice, because he ressurected himself after 3 days and It was all forged from the beggining by God, it was easy because he was God to support all that suffer.

It would be more exciting and virtuous if the sacrifice was really a sacrifice, that it wasn’t planned from the beggining and that Jesus did not ressurect and he would stay dead forever, then it would be the real sacrifice and the real virtuous thing.

How do I solve this problem? Because I was thinking by myself this days, and I was wondering if it was really a sacrifice? What did Jesus Sacrifice?

Thanks.

You mean a perfect, eternal and infinite being becoming a material and limited being made to suffer isn’t a sacrifice?

 

[bzkoss236]

I would say that anyone who dies for a purpose is sacrificed, whether it was planned or not.
Say someone jumps out in front of you to take a bullet. They’ve sacrificed their self for you. Going further, say that person told you before you were in that situation that he or she would take a bullet for you. In that case, it was planned. It is still a sacrifice.

I don’t know if that’s good enough, but that is what sacrifice is.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

OK let’s put some perspective to this. Why God needed to make a sacrifice in the first place?

In the garden Adam and Eve ate the fruit.
God had told them " If you eat of this fruit you will surely die"

So atonement for sin is Death

Also we see from Genesis that when God instructed Moses on how to prepare the sin offerings they had to choose unblemished animals…Hint Hint!

So to atone and repair the breach caused by Adam and Eve sin we need an UMBLEMISHED HUMAN
Umblemished = Sinless

Can you see the little issue there???

The human species cannot produce a sinless sacrificial offering

Who could do that? Only God through his mercy could achieve that, he came Himself.

Jesus IS God that came to pay the price that Adam and Eve and all of us have been yoked with.

This.

God who is all perfect came as a humble servant, was beaten, hated, mocked, tortured…keep in mind He is God, who certainly isnt worthy of that treatment, yet He acceppted it. For us and for no other reason. That is definitely a sacrifice.

 

[JRKH]

You make the comment that it was easy…But then explain the prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane before hand. Why did he sweat blood and ask that the Father take the cup away from him?

Sacrifice can take many forms…One can know full well what is coming and the results and still choose to make the sacrifice - especially if that sacrifice is out of Love.
As an example I offer only my poor experience - but it is like the sacrifice of so many others these days.
My wife whom I love has dementia. We are 10 years into this journey and I have watched her decline from a vibrant beautiful intelligent woman into a nearly bed-fast virtual infant who cannot walk, talk or control her bowels. We are both on the cross of this journey and we - neither of us - knows how much longer it will last.
I quit my job to care for her. I feed her I toilet her, I bathe her, I lift her and move her. I chose to sacrifice my “life” rather than put her in an institution out of my deep love for her. Years before we were married, she said that if she ever got dementia, she would do herself in. She chose not to - out of her great Love for me.

We know the end…Having returned to the Church - we understand that our suffering will not be in vain…Just as Christ’s suffering was not in vain…Just as He “descended into hell” (as the Apostles creed says), so have we descended into a “hell” or a “purgatory” which for her has the exit of death and joy in heaven and for me…a “resurrection” of sorts to something of a “normal” life.

So I hope you can see…Even from this poor example…that there STILL can be sacrifice even if one knows what is coming and what the outcome will be.

Peace
James

 

[runningdude]

People often say that Jesus wasn’t really a sacrifice, because he ressurected himself after 3 days and It was all forged from the beggining by God, it was easy because he was God to support all that suffer.

“People” say a lot of things. That doesn’t make them true

It would be more exciting and virtuous if the sacrifice was really a sacrifice, that it wasn’t planned from the beggining and that Jesus did not ressurect and he would stay dead forever, then it would be the real sacrifice and the real virtuous thing.

How do I solve this problem? Because I was thinking by myself this days, and I was wondering if it was really a sacrifice? What did Jesus Sacrifice?

Thanks.

Jesus became human. He humbly humbly submitted himself so that he could feel pain and suffering as human could. Born with no sin, his human form deserved nothing but joy. Instead he submitted himself to death, so that we may live.

While Jesus’ divinity resurrected himself, this does not detract from his suffering and death. Christ promises to resurrect all good men and women at the end of time. He did nothing for himself that he won’t do for us!

 

[R_C]

People often say that Jesus wasn’t really a sacrifice, because he ressurected himself after 3 days and It was all forged from the beggining by God, it was easy because he was God to support all that suffer.

Yes, it wasn’t really a sacrifice for an immortal God to chose to lower Himself and save us through sufferings, becoming our servant, rather than simply annihilating creation as a whole and giving it a fresh start…it was no sacrifice to live amidst His children not being recognized by them, being despised and persecuted by them, accepting to be taken captive, beaten, scourged, crowned with thorns, and nailed to a cross, abandoned by all except His mother and His beloved disciple.

We tend to forget that yes, Christ was true God, but also true man. What he endured, he endured as man. He was happy and sad, he laughed and cried, he suffered pain and sorrows both physical and psychological, and His human will had to be submitted to His divine will, sometimes requiring significant sorrow as a result (as we see in the Garden).

I will be honest: I believe that anyone who, unlike you who are simply trying to understand, actually dares to affirm and profess that Christ was not a sacrifice, is committing one of the gravest blasphemies.

 

[chris62]

How blessed we are to have people on this forum to be able to answer these questions so intelligently.
And God bless you JRKH, and your wife.

 

[StrawberryJam]

The Christian God demanded a Sacrifice of his choice.

Could have been a guy who made the wedding guests shawls to keep warm rather than wine to enjoy the wedding.
But, it is what it is.

 

[Trurl]

How do I solve this problem? Because I was thinking by myself this days, and I was wondering if it was really a sacrifice? What did Jesus Sacrifice?

To use a contemporary phrase, it was akin to a woman having a bad hair day.

The funny thing is that when WE have a lot of unexplained and unexplainable suffering, the usual cop-out (one of many) is that this TEMPORARY suffering is really insignificant compared to the eternal bliss we are supposed to get as a “compensation”. Usual attempt to blow both hot and cold from the apologist’s mouth. So, when we suffer, it is no big deal, but when Jesus (allegedly) suffered, it is “horrible”.

OK let’s put some perspective to this. Why God needed to make a sacrifice in the first place?

Yes, this is the real question. A decent person can forgive transgressions without demanding any sacrifice. However, christianity had “borrowed” heavily from the pagan religions, where those angry gods had to be appeased by offering up something valuable.

Also we see from Genesis that when God instructed Moses on how to prepare the sin offerings they had to choose unblemished animals…Hint Hint!

And since those tribes were mostly herders, the best they could offer was their livestock. Observe, that God did not accept Kain’s offering because it was “only” some vegetable. Crystal clear result of the value system of the herder tribe.

 

[StrawberryJam]

You don’t seriously mean that God valued livestock over grains?
Or do you?
You can’t get blood from grains, and God wanted a lot of blood, so you may be correct after all.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

People often say that Jesus wasn’t really a sacrifice, because he ressurected himself after 3 days and It was all forged from the beggining by God, it was easy because he was God to support all that suffer.

It would be more exciting and virtuous if the sacrifice was really a sacrifice, that it wasn’t planned from the beggining and that Jesus did not ressurect and he would stay dead forever, then it would be the real sacrifice and the real virtuous thing.

How do I solve this problem? Because I was thinking by myself this days, and I was wondering if it was really a sacrifice? What did Jesus Sacrifice?

Thanks.

Let me get this right - you are troubled by people who think Jesus being divine means he was Superman or Judge Dredd in full body armour or something?

They also understand Jesus had the detailed 3 day escape plan and pod all fuelled-up and ready to go from the year zero?

Come on, get a grip, the Incarnation isn’t to be understood through superhero comic books or star wars movie analogies .

 

[PRmerger]

The funny thing is that when WE have a lot of unexplained and unexplainable suffering, the usual cop-out (one of many) is that this TEMPORARY suffering is really insignificant compared to the eternal bliss we are supposed to get as a “compensation”.

Yes. Even a basic understanding of math makes the logic of the above quite clear.

Think: infinity. Compare that to finite.

Usual attempt to blow both hot and cold from the apologist’s mouth. So, when we suffer, it is no big deal, but when Jesus (allegedly) suffered, it is “horrible”

No. When we suffer, no one ought to be proclaiming that it is “no big deal”.

But it is indeed true to kill God Incarnate is, truly, “horrible”. You are correct about that, Trurl.

Yes, this is the real question. A decent person can forgive transgressions without demanding any sacrifice. However, christianity had “borrowed” heavily from the pagan religions, where those angry gods had to be appeased by offering up something valuable.

Yes. Christianity was the only religion in history to be pre-announced, to paraphrase from Archbishop Fulton Sheen.

And since those tribes were mostly herders, the best they could offer was their livestock. Observe, that God did not accept Kain’s offering because it was “only” some vegetable. Crystal clear result of the value system of the herder tribe.

Ok.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, this is the real question. A decent person can forgive transgressions without demanding any sacrifice. However, christianity had “borrowed” heavily from the pagan religions, where those angry gods had to be appeased by offering up something valuable.

There is no such thing as love without sacrifice, Trurl. :nope:

 

[oldcatholicguy]

People often say that Jesus wasn’t really a sacrifice, because he ressurected himself after 3 days and It was all forged from the beggining by God, it was easy because he was God to support all that suffer.

It would be more exciting and virtuous if the sacrifice was really a sacrifice, that it wasn’t planned from the beggining and that Jesus did not ressurect and he would stay dead forever, then it would be the real sacrifice and the real virtuous thing.

How do I solve this problem? Because I was thinking by myself this days, and I was wondering if it was really a sacrifice? What did Jesus Sacrifice?

Thanks.

By the criteria set forth the only people who ever make a sacrifice are atheists who do not believe in any form of afterlife. Little self serving considering who usually puts forth that criteria.