Was Mary a Saint at Birth?

[oppositeman13]

Audience of the Holy Father with the employees of the Holy See and Vatican City State for Christmas greetings , 21.12.2018 - http://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2018/12/21/181221d.html

THE FIFTH PARAGRAPH

So who is happy in the Nativity scene? Our Lady and Saint Joseph are full of joy: they look at the Child Jesus and they are happy because, after a thousand worries, they have accepted this gift of God, with so much faith and so much love. They are “overflowing” with holiness and therefore with joy. And you will tell me: of course! They are Our Lady and Saint Joseph! Yes, but let us not think it was easy for them: saints are not born, they become thus, and this is true for them too.

We believe Joseph was a sinner but Mary was born immaculately. So one obvious problem is the Pope is speaking of both and not making this point.

SO WAS MARY A SAINT FROM BIRTH? OR WAS SHE NOT AND HAD TO “WORK AT IT”?

 

[Wesrock]

I think it would depend on how we’re using the word saint. In a looser usage, like in Paul’s letters referring to those still living… yes, I think she would be. In terms of how the Church uses the word now, referring to those part of the Church Triumphant and receiving the beatific vision, no, she was not.

I don’t have any references for this. It’s just my own speculation right now.

 

[Hodos]

Mary is a saint, as are we (using the biblical usage of the word saint) by virtue of her receiving God’s grace through faith.

 

[1ke]

Yes, but let us not think it was easy for them: saints are not born, they become thus, and this is true for them too.

We believe Joseph was a sinner but Mary was born immaculately. So one obvious problem is the Pope is speaking of both and not making this point.

Adam and Eve were originally without sin either, let us not forget. They had free will and they sinned against God. Mary had free will too, and could haved sinned.

Mary had sanctifying grace and holiness, yes. But she was not a robot. She had to struggle and try to understand God’s will in her life just like us. She suffered disappointment and all the human emotions that come with motherhood, and more since she was united so closely to her son.

Mary, while alive, was always in the process of becoming a saint , because she was on a spiritual journey of discipleship— and we are too.

Don’t miss the point of what the Pope is saying by trying to read more into it than is there.

 

[Francis]

She was chosen before the foundations of the world to be his Mother and our spiritual Mother. Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother ( MARY). (MOTHER MARY IS SINLESS and Mary retain "perpetual virginity), sirach 24:18 I am the mother (Mary)of beautiful love, of fear, of knowledge, and of holy hope; being eternal, I therefore am given to all my children (Gen 3:15), to those who are named by him(Jesus).

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 just as he chose us in Christ[ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before him in love. 5 He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace

967 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)510 of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix 512

Mary’s virginal motherhood in God’s plan

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm

 

[Vico]

…

Luke 1

46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.

 

[Dovekin]

The child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom; and the favor of God was upon him…
And Jesus advanced [in] wisdom and age and favor before God and man. Luke 2:40,52

If Jesus could grow, and become strong, and advance in wisdom, I believe Mary could as well. It takes nothing away from the gift of holiness if we acknowledge her humanity.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

“Saint” as we currently use the word means a person who is in heaven with God. By that definition, one walking around on earth in their human body is never a “saint”, so Mary was not a “saint” during her life. As Wesrock pointed out, St. Paul used the word differently to denote people who were living and following Jesus., so by that definition, Mary was a “saint” during her life

Mary, during her life, was sinless and always had her will in perfect conformity with God. This likely did require some effort on her part in overcoming her human emotions, such as being frightened / troubled when an angel showed up and informed her she was going to conceive God’s child. I am sure she had all the normal human emotions like "how am I going to explain this to Joseph, will he divorce me, " etc. I doubt she was completely calm and okay with the idea of seeing her son Jesus tortured to death in front of her eyes either, but she accepted that as God’s will too. She didn’t say, “God must not exist or must not love us because otherwise He wouldn’t let this evil happen.”

 

[Dan_Defender]

Does it matter if she was born a saint? she still had free will throughout her earthly life. The important thing is, she is first among saints now and she can help you. Pray for her intercession.

 

[Dan_Defender]

She didn’t say, “God must not exist or must not love us because otherwise He wouldn’t let this evil happen.”

True and unlike some people who are quick to dismiss/blame God for everything that goes wrong in their earthly life.

 

[Richca]

Our Blessed Mother was not only born a saint but she was conceived a saint for she was sanctified in the very beginning of her existence in her Immaculate Conception. From the moment of Mary’s Immaculate Conception, Mary only grew in holiness and sanctity throughout her whole life on earth til her last breath. There never was a time in Mary’s existence from her Immaculate Conception to the end of her life on earth where we can say Mary wasn’t a saint and then became a saint for she was a living saint from the beginning of her Immaculate Conception. The same is true for the humanity of Jesus. In fact, Mary is the only human being who has ever been conceived without original sin, conceived a saint, born a saint, lived her entire life on earth as a saint, all holy without the least shadow of darkness or stain of sin. Jesus was conceived without original sin too in the womb of Mary in his humanity but Jesus is not a human being in the sense of being a human person for the person in Jesus’ humanity is the eternal Son of God, one person in two natures, the divine and the human, i.e., there is not a human person and a divine person in Jesus but only the one person of the eternal Son of God.

The rest of humanity are conceived in original sin and not born saints but are sanctified, justified, and made holy in baptism which washes away all stain of sin both of original sin such as infant baptism and personal sin too such as adult baptism and all punishment due to sin, eternal and temporal, as well so that baptism disposes a soul to go straight to heaven upon death if a personal sin is not committed after baptism before death. Saints are literally born in baptism and so as Wesrock noted, St Paul calls living christians saints quite often in his letters. After baptism, we can grow in sanctity and holiness through our works and life by cooperating with the grace of the Holy Spirit and thus did Mary and Joseph who were living saints though Mary conceived a saint grow in holiness and sanctity throughout their lives.

‘He that is just, let him be justified still: and he that is holy, let him be sanctified still’ (Rev. 22:11).

‘For this is the will of God, your sanctification’ (1 Thess. 4:3).

 

[WingsOfEagles]

Mary was not born a saint. Like everyone else Mary was born a sinner and needed a Savior through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Actually, the Church teaches that Mary was born without even Original Sin.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Mary was not born a saint. Like everyone else Mary was born a sinner and needed a Savior through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Again, this is not what the Catholic Church teaches.
Your profile says you are Baptist. I presume you are posting the perspective of your own Baptist Church in this and the other thread about non-Christian souls.

As this forum is called “Catholic Answers”, then It would be nice if you would state when you post that you are answering as a Baptist, not a Catholic. Your responses in two threads are contrary to Catholic Church teaching and there is potential for you to confuse people who do not know what the Catholic Church teaches and come here specifically to find out.

Also, from a Catholic perspective, you calling Mary a sinner is blasphemous. I will pray for you.

 

[lagerald24]

The Catholic Church teaches that Mary, like everyone, needed a Savior. However, the grace that Jesus Christ would later gain isn’t bound by time nor location. This grace was infused into Mary’s soul at her conception because she was to be the Mother of God.

 

[ahs]

Like everyone else Mary was born a sinner…

Eh, what sin did she commit (Chapter and verse, please)? (I am assuming that your understanding of original sin is not equivalent to that of historical Christianity. If I am wrong, then the question would be, “How was Mary deprived of sanctifying grace if the Angel of God calls her, by name, as “Full of Grace” [kecharitomene]”?)

At any rate, to decide on the original question, “was Mary a Saint at birth”, requires that we define what “Saint” means, no? The question can’t be answered unless we know what we are answering. I have read posts on other forums where the Pope is called a heretic for saying she wasn’t “a saint”. Well, what does “saint” mean? And at that, what does it mean for a Catholic (since this is a Catholic question about a Catholic doctrine, seeking a Catholic answer). Then we can answer the question.