Was Mary without sin all of her life?

[katholisch]

I am one of the RCIA coordinators at our parish. Last night in class the evenings’ presenter stated that Mary was without sin all of her life. One person asked where in scripture that statement can be found.
The presenter did not know and neither did I. We want to research this so we can give the class an answer next time. Can anyone point us to the right scripture passage? Thanks

 

[sententia]

Yep.

Look up “full of grace” in the greek, and the grammatical formation of it .

 

[Lazerlike42]

Have you spoken about Scripture yet? (I’m not quite sure why Mary would come up before Scripture, but if it did that’s how it is lol)

The truth is it never says this in Scripture. You can infer it from Scripture, though.

The first thing I’d do is give a lesson on Scripture and what it is and where it came from. If you want help with that, ask for it!

(Basically where I would start is to point out that Sacred Tradition came first and then graudally Sacred Scripture developed out of the Tradition. All Scripture is is bits and pieces of Tradition written down.

 

[Lazerlike42]

In fact one of the biggest mistakes a Catholic can make is to give in to the every request to prove everything from Scripture.

We can if need be, and it is useful to “back up” our teachings, but we must first and foremost get across the fact that Scripture is only a part of the Truth. It is who we are, and it is who God is. We just have to be careful about playing by the rules others want to set (Sola Scriptura) as opposed to teaching about God in Truth and Who He really Is.

 

[katholisch]

I agree, we have already had few discussions about the fact that “sola scriptura” does not work for the Catholic Church. We actually had a different presenter speak about scripture last week and she does a wonderful job. However I don’t think some of these folks can let go of their “roots” yet. This is hardest for some of the candidates which were raised in mostly protestant denominations. We also have one LDS person who absolutely can not grasp the concept of the Trinity. We have explained that some things we can not rationally understand while we are here on earth. That is what faith is all about.

 

[Writer]

Here’s an excerpt from a personal/unpublished article of mine on Mary, which may be helpful.

*When discussing the Catholic understanding of Mary it is also only natural to mention the Immaculate Conception. This dogma, made official by Pope Pius IX in 1854, declares that Mary was free from the stain of original sin. As The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes it, she was “redeemed from the moment of her conception”. While this mystery may be challenging to grasp at first, it makes greater sense if one reflects upon it. If we acknowledge that God is outside of time, then we can understand the implication of Mary’s predestination as hinted at in verses such as Ephesians 1:3-4. God was precisely aware who was destined to bear His Son into the world before even the arrival of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. If we accept God is omniscient and possessed foreknowledge of the details of this miracle, then it only stands to reason that God would shelter this chosen one from the harmful effects of original sin. After all, how can the stain of sin co-exist so intimately (both physically and spiritually) with true good or "life itself, immutable ", as Saint Augustine describes God in his Confessions? Of course, another argument supporting the Immaculate Conception is found in Luke 1:28. How could Mary be “blessed among women”, if she harbored the stain of original sin?
*

 

[Della]

And, you have to understand something about the development of doctrine. Everything we believe as Catholics is in the Nicene Creed in “seed” form. Each concept is a study unto itself that scholars, mystics, saints, and theologians have gone over for centuries, mining all the truth from them they can find. One of these deals with the statement that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. Looking deeply into this truth, the Church has come to certain conclusions about Mary and her place in the “salvific economy”, i. e., her place in salvation.

Two of the saints who delved most deeply into Mary’s place and meaning was St. Alphonsus de Ligouri and St. Louis Marie de Montfort. Their works on the subject are quite profound, and really not for those who don’t already have a firm grasp on the teachings of the Church regarding Mary. However, they cited several scripture verses pertaining to Mary drawn from the prophecies of the OT as well as from what the Apostles and Gospel writers wrote about her in the NT.

What one needs to understand before looking into these verses is that the whole of the Bible is a witness to Christ and to his Church. As others have said, the Sacred Scriptures came out of Sacred Tradition as passed on to us from the patriarchs and prophets of the OT as well as the Apostles and writers of the NT. The Church doesn’t use the Bible as a proof-text for any teaching, but rather as a witness to the teachings of the Church.

 

[copland]

It is the most common question for Protestants to ask “Where is it in the Bible?” The reason is because usually they believe in ‘Bible only’ and that nothing that pertains to the Faith can come from anywhere else than from the Bible. But as Catholics we believe in the Bible and the Church Tradition and Magesterium teachings, and that being our authority.

So if someone says that the Bible alone is the only authority for teaching, then ask them “Where in the Bible does it teach Bible only?” If there is no authority outside of the Bible then who had the authority to determine what books were to be in the Bible? If the Bible is infallable then who has the authority to give an infallible interpretation of it? The answer is the Catholic Church! She is apostolic! And She teaches infallibly the doctrines concerning Mary!

I hope this helps!

 

[Lazerlike42]

The best I’ve heard it described is this.

In Luke we read the angel Gabriel saying, “Hail, full of grace,” to Mary. One point is that the way the angel says this rings of him actually referring to Mary as “full of grace” as thought it were a name. This is interesting to consider in the light of Simon’s renaming to Rock. However, this is mostly a side note.

We must consider the implications of this. If Mary is full of grace, than there is no room whatsoever for sin.

We also read of Mary being told, “blessed art thou among women.” We know that Mary spoke Aramaic, a semitic language. In such languages, there is no word to say, “most” or “more” or “less” or “least.” These things must be conveyed via various phrases. If I were amongst a group and wished to declare in Aramaic that someone was the tallest, I would need to say, “You are tall among us.” What this all means is that when Mary was told “Blessed art thou among women,” she was being told, “you are the most blessed woman.”

To this point, the most blessed woman has been Eve. She was blessed with the miracle of creation from nothing. She was blessed with the miracle of being born with sanctifying grace, so that she may live with God. So in short, she was the most blessed woman because she was born without original sin. From this we can infer that Mary must too have been blessed without any original sin. Otherwise, she would not have this same level of blessing that Eve had had. However, to this point Mary is only equal to Eve. We know that Eve eventually went on to sin. Mary, by not sinning, shows herself to be more blessed than Eve, and truly most blessed of all women.

 

[allhers]

katholisch:

I am one of the RCIA coordinators at our parish. Last night in class the evenings’ presenter stated that Mary was without sin all of her life. One person asked where in scripture that statement can be found.
The presenter did not know and neither did I. We want to research this so we can give the class an answer next time. Can anyone point us to the right scripture passage? Thanks

As one of the coordinators, surely you have access to the Cathechism of the Catholic Church right? Look up Mary in it, it will explain it all to you, complete with Bible verses and all.

 

[Matt14]

I understand that catholics believe that not everything must be proven in scripture, that tradition plays a part. But I’ve also been told that catholics do not think tradition can contradict scripture. So in scripture when we read:

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Why does this not apply to Mary?

We read that Jesus was tempted just as we are, and yet He was without sin, this being the main difference between the life He lived, and the lives men and women live.

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

If we were able to be sinless outside of Christ’s sacrifice, we wouldn’t need Christ, would we?

 

[Calvinist42]

I believe in the Scriptures as the primary source for our understanding of all matters of faith and morals. The magistirium, and sacred oral tradition may play a part in this as well. My problem is that I believe they must all fit hand in hand. What the Church preaches must come from Scripture, sacred oral tradition can not contradict Scripture, the Scriptures is what must hold all Catholics together. So in that sense Scripture and the Holy Spirit are all one needs to understanding matters of faith and morals. In terms of Mary being “full of grace” I do not see the Catholic belief that the term means to be without sin. I think it would only be appropriate that Christ would chose to be conceived through a sinful woman considering the line that He chose to come through. The entire line of Judah is filled with sin. David was a liar, a murderer, and an adulterer. It is only appropriate that the Creator of the universe would choose this avenue to show His glory, grace and truth.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Matt14:

I understand that catholics believe that not everything must be proven in scripture, that tradition plays a part. But I’ve also been told that catholics do not think tradition can contradict scripture. So in scripture when we read:

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Why does this not apply to Mary?

(Objection: The Bible says “None is righteous, no, not one: and no one does good, not even one.”)

1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

This verse is referring to Zechariah & Elizabeth as being righteous. The verse quoted as “None is righteous & no one does good,” is taken clearly out of context. This verse from Romans 3:10-12 is quoted from Psalms 14:1-4. In Psalm 14 the Psalmist is talking about two types of people, the wicked who eat up God’s people and then, in verse 5, the generation of the righteous. Also look at Lk 2:25, 5:32, 15:7, 23:50; Rom 5:19; Heb 10:37-38; Gen 6:9, 7:1, 38:26.

But this is a whole other thread: http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=69021

Matt14:

If we were able to be sinless outside of Christ’s sacrifice, we wouldn’t need Christ, would we?

If I saved you from being trapped in a well, or if I saved you from falling in the well, both we be situations were I saved you, in fact you would be more thankful if I saved you from falling in the first place, would you not?

If you had the power to create your own mother, would you create her stained with sin, or would you save her from this?

(Also think about the Ark of the Covenant and how high a place it held, how much more should the True Ark of the Covenant be regarded?)

 

[Brendan]

Matt14:

If we were able to be sinless outside of Christ’s sacrifice, we wouldn’t need Christ, would we?

I don’t recall anyone here saying Mary was sinless outside of Christ’s sacrifice?

Could you point out who said that?

 

[Matt14]

E.E.N.S.:

(Objection: The Bible says “None is righteous, no, not one: and no one does good, not even one.”)

1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

This verse is referring to Zechariah & Elizabeth as being righteous. The verse quoted as “None is righteous & no one does good,” is taken clearly out of context. This verse from Romans 3:10-12 is quoted from Psalms 14:1-4. In Psalm 14 the Psalmist is talking about two types of people, the wicked who eat up God’s people and then, in verse 5, the generation of the righteous. Also look at Lk 2:25, 5:32, 15:7, 23:50; Rom 5:19; Heb 10:37-38; Gen 6:9, 7:1, 38:26.

But this is a whole other thread: http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=69021

Zechariah and Elizabeth walked in the commandments and ordinances of God. This would necessarily mean that they took advantage of the sacrifices for sin according to the Law of Moses. So yes, they were considered righteous and blameless, but not because they didn’t sin!

Likewise, through Christ, and through Christ ONLY, can man be considered righteous, because He will atone perfectly for our sins if we take refuge in Him.

If I saved you from being trapped in a well, or if I saved you from falling in the well, both we be situations were I saved you, in fact you would be more thankful if I saved you from falling in the first place, would you not?

If you had the power to create your own mother, would you create her stained with sin, or would you save her from this?

(Also think about the Ark of the Covenant and how high a place it held, how much more should the True Ark of the Covenant be regarded?)

He loves us all. Why would He create one woman sinless?

Mat 12:49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers!

Just a thought…

 

[Matt14]

Brendan:

I don’t recall anyone here saying Mary was sinless outside of Christ’s sacrifice?

Could you point out who said that?

Well, I assumed we were talking about the view of the catholic church. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, we read:

411 …“Mary benefitted first of all and uniquely from Christ’s victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.”

This says that Mary committed no sin, not that her sins were merely atoned for. Also, it says by a special grace of God, not the sacrifice of Christ. Although it does say this was a benefit of Christ’s victory over sin, we still see an insistence that Mary committed no sin.

 

[Lazerlike42]

Zechariah and Elizabeth walked in the commandments and ordinances of God. This would necessarily mean that they took advantage of the sacrifices for sin according to the Law of Moses. So yes, they were considered righteous and blameless, but not because they didn’t sin!

This is changing the issue. The issue is, “isn’t it true that no one is righteous, and can’t I use this verse to prove it?” The answer is no. Elizabeth and Zechariah were righteous, Noah was called so too. The context of Psalm 14 speaks about a whole group of righteous people. In short, the point is that this verse has to be thrown out as a proof text.

Likewise, through Christ, and through Christ ONLY, can man be considered righteous, because He will atone perfectly for our sins if we take refuge in Him.

This is exactly what the Church teaches (other than the word “considered,” but that’s a whole other thread). Mary was freed from sin just as we all will be through and only through Christ’s sacrifice. In fact, everyone who gets to Heaven will receive the same gift of sinlessness that Mary had. She simply got it early. I could say, “God loves us all, why didn’t he make us all the mother’s of Christ?” Or, “why didn’t He just plop Christ down so as not to give Mary and favortism at all?” You might ask why, if He loves us all, would He give this to her early. Well, we will all meet God, but he let Moses and Elijah meet Him early. He let Peter and Paul and James actually walk the earth with Christ… why not me?

 

[Della]

He loves us all. Why would He create one woman sinless?

Mat 12:49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers!

Just a thought…

Matt14

Certainly God loves us all, but he chooses certain persons to fulfill his will in ways he doesn’t choose others. There are many examples of this in the Bible, both OT and NT. His loving us has nothing to do with who he chooses to do what and how he prepares each person to do what he wants for them, now, does it?

The verse you quoted is not a statement about Mary’s sinlessness, her special place in salvation history, nor any other teaching about her. All he is saying is that anyone who does the will of the Father is a member of God’s family. Mary certainly did the will of the Father in all things. She is a prime example of doing God’s will in full accordance with God’s will. He hardly meant to exclude her or put her down merely by demonstrating that being a member of God’s family has more to do with actions than with blood relationship, which was so very important to the Jews.

 

[Lazerlike42]

Matt14:

Mat 12:49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers!

Just a thought…

Christ spoke Aramaic. We can see this from passages like John 1:42. In Aramaic, there is no word for cousin. This alone is enough to show that these men are not necessarily His biological brothers. What’s more, many of the people are identified elsewhere in the Gospels as children of people other than Mary. This is more evidence that not only says they could be unrelated to Christ, but that they in fact are unrelated to Him. It’s also important to ask why is it that we need to say that Christ meant biological brothers. The Bible is one of the biggest places in the world to see the word “brother” being used to refer to Spiritual brothers as opposed to biological brothers. On top of this we can add the fact that Christ gave Mary to John to protect on the cross. In today’s world, and especially in the culture of the time of Christ, the responsibility for caring for a woman would lie on her family. If these men were His actual biological brothers, it would be not only unneccessary but also incredibly rude to say this to John and to pass over Mary’s other children. On top of this is the fact that when Gabriel tells Mary she is going to have a child, she says, “How can this be as I know not man?” Obviously she hadn’t known a man. But Mary is acting like she will never know one. If she had plans to engage in intercourse with Joseph, she’d have no reason to be surprised at this. A very, very early document called the Protoevangelium of James gives us the answer: Mary was sworn to be a temple servant as a child. This is roughly equivalent to a cloistered nun today. She was to serve the temple and pledge her virginity her entire life. Joseph was an older widow of the city that was chosen to protect her, as unwed women needed protection from bandits and the like in those days. This was a common practice.

 

[Lazerlike42]

Matt14:

Well, I assumed we were talking about the view of the catholic church. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, we read:

411 …“Mary benefitted first of all and uniquely from Christ’s victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.”

This says that Mary committed no sin, not that her sins were merely atoned for. Also, it says by a special grace of God, not the sacrifice of Christ. Although it does say this was a benefit of Christ’s victory over sin, we still see an insistence that Mary committed no sin.

All Graces that we as human beings can receive are Graces earned by Christ on the cross. That is why Mary is known as the Mediatrix of all Graces: Christ is the source of every Grace, and He was born into the world through Mary. Every blessing and special Grace that she (or in fact Moses or anyone else!) received was earned by Christ on the cross.