Was mohammed Catholic?

[inJESUS]

In NO source Waraqa appears as a leader admired by mohammed. That’s a fixed idea of you.

 

[inJESUS]

Even Shiites deny this stupid story.

 

[eigerhar]

The quotation says only that you shouldn’t curse ben nawfal because the prophet saw him in paradise.

That doesn’t say much even if this hadith wouldn’t lie. All followers of a religion of a book can be found in paradise.

Muslims come presenting us an illiterate Muhammad

As you should have understood I don’t and some shiites either.

 

[inJESUS]

The quotation says only that you shouldn’t curse ben nawfal because the prophet saw him in paradise.

That doesn’t say much even if this hadith wouldn’t lie.

 

[eigerhar]

Muhammad praised

Mohammed doesn’t praise him, he don’t damn him!

are you Muslim?

No! I am traditional catholic.

link about the Shiites stand

Yes, when I’ll find it again. But I won’t lose time by searching.

 

[inJESUS]

Mohammed doesn’t praise him, he don’t damn him!

to say he’s in heaven is not simply “not damning” him…he wouldn’t see him in heaven if the man was not worth it in Muhammad’s dictionary.

Yes, when I’ll find it again. But I won’t lose time by searching.

 

[eigerhar]

lastprophetofgod.blogspot.com/2008/05/obvious-flaws-of-shiaism-by-shais.html

Another link. My original link was a shia-link.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Marriage with 6 years was NO scandal in those countries.

The scandal was that he has touched her before she was mature.

Were do we know this from?

From the hadiths who HATED mohammed!!!
They LIE!!!

Mohammed did NEVER such a thing!!!

He was a good catholic!!!

Aisha was six or seven years old when betrothed to Muhammad. She stayed in her parents’ home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated [1][3][4][5]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Marriage_to_Muhammad

1. Watt, “Aisha”, Encyclopedia of Islam Online
2. Barlas (2002), p.125-126
3. Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234, 5:58:236, 7:62:64, 7:62:65, 7:62:88, Sahih Muslim 8:3309, 8:3310, 8:3311, Sunnan Abu Dawud 41:4915, 41:4917
4. Tabari, Volume 9, Page 131; Tabari, Volume 7, Page 7

I included the footnotes for you & the Wikipedia link to “Aisha”

My history is the following (I’m not neutral because the Hadiths aren’t either).
Abu Bakr saw that Fatima the catholic daughter of mohammed grew up more sanely than the childs of pagan fathers.

So Abu Bakr asked mohammed to take his daughter that she becomes like his Fatima.
But mohammed replied: “She is much to young for me!!!”
But Abu Bakr said said: “Look we are brethren in the faith. Take my daughter that she becomes a good catholic like your daughter. That is more important.”
Against his will but as a burning missionary mohammed took this religious duty. He didn’t touch her but invited her girl friends to play with puppets. He only loved Kaddisha.

But when he was asked to bring anyone to catholic faith he couldn’t say no.

From an article by the late Rev. Jerry Falwell:

This week’s annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention was met with some unexpected fireworks after my friend Dr. Jerry Vines, pastor of the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Fla., declared that Muhammad was a “demon-possessed pedophile” and that Islam teaches the destruction of all non-Muslims.

worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27975

Bill Donohue President of the Catholic League, had this to say about Rev. Falwell:

Bill Donohue of the Catholic League catholicleague.org/07press_releases
said this of Mr. Falwell today:

“Jerry was a great fighter in the culture wars. He was both an exemplary evangelical and a renowned social activist, always exuding the kind of moral courage so often lacking in religious leaders of all faiths. He will be sorely missed.”

Mr. Falwell and his Moral Majority campaigned hard for Ronald Reagan in 1980. That helped make possible the President and Pope John Paul II’s successful assault on the Soviet evil empire.

When Pope John Paul II died, Mr. Falwell said, “The world has lost a great moral leader.”

Dissenter Catholics, like all liberals, will excoriate Mr. Falwell.

Wonder if our Catholic bishops will praise him for his pro-life efforts. As a former pro-life chairman of our bishops, Cardinal Mahony ought to do so.

“Boldly live out your faith!”

onelacatholic.blogspot.com/2007/05/jerry-falwell-rip.html

I didn’t quote Donahue to try and show the Baptist viewpoint toward Muhammad is shared by Catholics. I quoted Donahue to show that Falwell was a friend to Catholics (in anticipation of a charge that he was not).

Does anyone think capitulation to evil and attempts to find harmony with it is what Jesus had in mind? Love doesn’t mean to spread lies. In matters of faith it is imperative to boldly speak the truth. The truth is boldly stated by Dr. Jerry Vines in the article above, not by you as far as all credible sources confirm.

Perhaps you think it’s better not to offend evil? All that will accomplish is to promulgate it. The Apostles and saints spoke the truth in many cases at the cost of their own lives. They weren’t afraid to offend. Jesus did the same; and so should we.

 

[eigerhar]

the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated

Perhaps you have had a revelation that affirms that the hadiths don’t lie.

I don’t understand how an intelligent man can believe that the haidths don’t lie.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Perhaps you have had a revelation that affirms that the hadiths don’t lie.

I don’t understand how an intelligent man can believe that the haidths don’t lie.

Wikipedia cited multiple sources, including reliable historical encyclopedias. Until proven otherwise by a reliable source I’ll take their word for it.

If you can prove that Muhammad was a “good Catholic” and did not sleep with Aisha soon after he married her (which seems sort of absurd) then please provide sources. Authoritative sources please?

I guess you’re trying to show Muhammad was a good guy and the authors of the Quran were not. Again, if you can prove this to be true then I have no incentive to argue the point. However, yours is a minority view and as far as I can tell it is revisionist history (not to mention your motives are obvious – which further clouds your credibility from a scholastic standpoint).

That’s all I have to say really – this is not a huge area of interest for me. I do have great concern for those in the Middle East and their hatred of Christianity, not to mention the environment over there that makes missionary work difficult and dangerous. I just don’t think saying Muhammad was good when it seems clear that he was not will help matters?

Saint Paul was an excellent Jew before the truth was revealed to him. So Muslims will simply say it’s great that Muhammad was a “good Catholic” before the truth was revealed to him? It’s certainly better that he was a good Catholic as opposed to a bad one I suppose?

Then you might turn around and attack the Quran, but they might say even if there were efforts to mischaracterize Muhammad and his ministry by the authors of the Quran – God somehow made sure that it came to represent His words and revelation. There’s always a way to spin everything. I think we’re better off fighting falsity with truth and not going down the road of revisionist history and speculation beyond what is recorded about Muhammad (since we have no way of disproving these sources given how remote in time this all is).

But I guess that’s the protestant in me.

 

[inJESUS]

Perhaps you have had a revelation that affirms that the hadiths don’t lie.

I don’t understand how an intelligent man can believe that the haidths don’t lie.

without the hadith and Quran no Muhammad…you cannot create your version of Muhammad by rejecting both. True that many hadith are mere fabrications that oppose the Quran, like Muhammad’s so called miracles,and these are rejected by many Muslims btw, nonetheless these hadith present us with the history of Muhammad’s time and era and followers…it does not make sense that every single one is a fabrication…some are simply historical and there is no reason to reject them…if Muslims wanted to fabricate a hadith, the purpose logically is to speak good of Muhammad, not bad…but you twisted it to say these bad hadith are written with the purpose of defaming Muhammad…shia hold your views that many sunni hadith are immoral and show an immoral Muhamad, but the sunni as well hold the same view of shia that some of their hadith and teachings are immoral…bottom line, Muhammad was what both Shia and sunni have in their hands…

some people can distort Muhammad’s image by creating false hadith?
yes since both Shia and Sunni prove it…yet are Muslims so stupid to accept them at face value? is the whole science of hadith stupid? this is what i find hard to suggest in your argument.

 

[inJESUS]

Regarding his illiteracy, i will not argue with you since i believe he was very literate, as Ali whom he raised and taught. There is no reason to make him illiterate except to cast a divinity veil over his book.

 

[dzheremi]

This thread is so weird to me. Even if the Hadiths “hate” Muhammad, how does that then prove that he was Catholic? How does ANYTHING written in this thread prove that he was Catholic? I really, really don’t understand.

I will say that I am so glad that inJESUS is here to at least explain what the mistaken assumptions the OP is operating under are based on, because if I had to cobble together an argument based on only the text of the OP’s posts I would be even more thoroughly confused than I already am. Thanks, inJESUS! Your posts are always insightful and interesting.

 

[inJESUS]

Thanks, inJESUS! Your posts are always insightful and interesting.

thank you for your kind words dzheremi. God bless you.