Was Paul Ordained before he was baptised?

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CutlerB

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I am currently preparing myself for a discussion with a Lutheran friend of mine about the definition of “The Church”. As part of that, I want to explain Apostolic Succession and so I went to the Scriptures to cite some examples.

ScriptureCatholic lists Saint Paul as an example in Acts 9:15-17. There it says: [BIBLEDRB]Acts 9:17-19[/BIBLEDRB]

Now, to me that sounds as if Paul was ordained bishop before he was baptised! Can you clear this up?
 
Ananias is laying his hands on Paul to heal him not ordain him.
 
marty1818 said:
Ananias is laying his hands on Paul to heal him not ordain him.
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So this isn’t a reference to Paul’s ordination as a bishop, as Scripture Catholic says? If so, is there a reference to Paul being ordained?
 
marty1818 said:
Ananias is laying his hands on Paul to heal him not ordain him.
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So this isn’t a reference to Paul’s ordination as a bishop, as Scripture Catholic says? If so, is there a reference to Paul being ordained?
 
Do we know if Paul was ever really ordained? By a bishop? In Acts 9 Ananias is described as a disciple; in Acts 22 he is called “a devout observer of the law”. As Marty1818 says, it is clear that Ananias is God’s agent in removing Paul’s temporary blindness, he is not ordaining him. And the two passages seem to disagree on who baptized Paul, since in Acts 22 Paul says that Ananias sent him to be baptized, not that Ananias performed it himself. Even Acts 9 does not say that Ananias baptized Paul, but rather that he was baptized, with no direct reference to who performed it.

Note: I just read the comment about Acts 13. That does seem to be the time and place where Paul receives the Holy Spirit and is commissioned.
 
chaunceygardner said:
Do we know if Paul was ever really ordained? By a bishop? In Acts 9 Ananias is described as a disciple; in Acts 22 he is called “a devout observer of the law”. As Marty1818 says, it is clear that Ananias is God’s agent in removing Paul’s temporary blindness, he is not ordaining him. And the two passages seem to disagree on who baptized Paul, since in Acts 22 Paul says that Ananias sent him to be baptized, not that Ananias performed it himself. Even Acts 9 does not say that Ananias baptized Paul, but rather that he was baptized, with no direct reference to who performed it.

Note: I just read the comment about Acts 13. That does seem to be the time and place where Paul receives the Holy Spirit and is commissioned.
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Aren’t we splitting beans here?

Paul went to Jerusalem and presented himself to Peter and Apostles there. For him to be sent out to preach and convert do you think they would just allow him to go on his merry way without
a) Making sure he was indeed prepared to do so (that is why he had gone to Jerusalem in the first place) and
b) Once they were assured that he was indeed prepared to preach the Gospel would they send him without authority to do so?

Think not.

We have evidence He was: converted, forgiven, baptized and sent as an apostle (therefore Bishop) enough said.
 
I thought Paul, like the other Apostles, was never ordained by an ordinary man but directly commissioned by Christ.
 
It is a very good question. I believe the answer to your question is when was Paul ordained. It seems from Galatians that Paul did not receive instruction directly from any Apostle but received instruction directly from the Lord Jesus and he said he was in Arabia for three years. This seems to be proper for how can this man whp persecuted the Church be able to preach Christ unless he is instructed first. Since the Apostles had three years with Jesus why not Paul. It seems the Lord Jesus picked him out and he was sent back after spending three years with him in Arabia.

The Lord Jesus probably gave him this ordination or it was the apostles who confirm this sometime later. We know from scriptures that Matthias was ordained after the Resurrection and it can be conceivable the Apostles learning of Paul’s conversion and his three year stay in Arabia to learn about the faith convinced them to ordain him for the ministry.
 
JerryZ said:
Aren’t we splitting beans here?

Paul went to Jerusalem and presented himself to Peter and Apostles there. For him to be sent out to preach and convert do you think they would just allow him to go on his merry way without
a) Making sure he was indeed prepared to do so (that is why he had gone to Jerusalem in the first place) and
b) Once they were assured that he was indeed prepared to preach the Gospel would they send him without authority to do so?

Think not.

We have evidence He was: converted, forgiven, baptized and sent as an apostle (therefore Bishop) enough said.
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I would tend to agree with the poster who proposes that Paul was converted and commissioned by Christ. And we cannot assume any of the other Apostles had to “train” Paul, as he seems to begin proclaiming Jesus Christ almost immediately. In Galatians, Chapter 1, Paul says about his understanding of the Gospel: “I did not receive it from a human being, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”

It is also a stretch to assume that Paul spent three years in Arabia in preparation for his mission, as Chimo says. One cannot deduce from what Paul says that he spent three years in any one place, or about what he was doing during the entire time.
 
chaunceygardner said:
I would tend to agree with the poster who proposes that Paul was converted and commissioned by Christ. And we cannot assume any of the other Apostles had to “train” Paul, as he seems to begin proclaiming Jesus Christ almost immediately. In Galatians, Chapter 1, Paul says about his understanding of the Gospel: “I did not receive it from a human being, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”

It is also a stretch to assume that Paul spent three years in Arabia in preparation for his mission, as Chimo says. One cannot deduce from what Paul says that he spent three years in any one place, or about what he was doing during the entire time.
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Yes you are right. Thank you for correcting me.
 
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