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Pope_Noah_I
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I’ve heard that some called him a liberal for promoting the rhythm method, evolution and the Big Bang theory. Is it true?
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jj2011
Guest
He was open minded towards certain liturgical reforms, but not a liberal. According to Pius XII, periodic continence “rhythm”] was licit for serious reasons; he did not “promote” it. Also, in the encyclical Humani Generis he admits that belief in evolution of the human body [not the soul] isn’t heresy, but he did not promote any “big bang” stuff.
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Genesis315
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A Liberal in Catholic theology is one who reduces faith to the level of reason, and even supplants faith with reason. Pius XII did not do this.
That being said folks over at “true Catholic” (antipope Pius XIII) actually blame him for paving the way for modern liturgical reform and the Second Vatican Council. They say he began the “gradualism” that ushered in the alleged apostacy, as they call it.
I would say he embodies the authentic Spirit of Vatican II, condemning a zeal that abhors anything new (while always maintaining a proper perspective of the immutable things that are old) and seeking to make the Church an advocate for international and intranational peace, and also promoting an authentic Christian humanism to counter the false forms of it promoted by modern culture.
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Genesis315
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In this address he does, without using the phrase “big bang” he does address certain theories showing how they support the existence of God:
The Proofs For The Existence Of God In The Light Of Modern Natural Science November 22, 1951 [Address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences]
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BobP123
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Pius XII brought about some “reforms” such as allowing evening Masses, relaxing the midnight fast to 3-hrs, and restoring the ancient Holy Week ceremonies.
He also excommunicated communists, so he wasn’t all bad.
He also excommunicated communists, so he wasn’t all bad.
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Cathryn
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Pope Pius XII was advised not to say much about the Big Bang.
"At the reception in Castel Gandolfo, H.H. Pope Pius XII exalted the progress accomplished in observational astromomy, but made no allusion to the modern cosmology and the Big Bang Theory save for a poetic allusion to ‘les processus cosmiques qui se sont deroules au premier matin de la creation’ (7 September), Lemaitre felt relieved. Father O’Connell had well exercised his legendary discretion in obtaining that the Pope, by his silence, vindicate Lemaitre’s integrity as a physicist.
"Lemaitre wanted his Hypothesis of the Primeval Atom (Big Bang) to be judged soley as a physical theory, and exclusively on grounds of both mathematical consistency and adequation with observations and experiments. " The Big Bang and George Lemaitre edited by A. Berger
George Lemaitre was a Jesuit priest and astro-physicist from Belguim. Lemaitre wanted his theory to stand alone based on science not religion. He didn’t want the Vatican or Holy Father to openly embrace his theory. He said, “As far as I can see, such a theory remains entirely outside any metaphysical or religious question.”
"At the reception in Castel Gandolfo, H.H. Pope Pius XII exalted the progress accomplished in observational astromomy, but made no allusion to the modern cosmology and the Big Bang Theory save for a poetic allusion to ‘les processus cosmiques qui se sont deroules au premier matin de la creation’ (7 September), Lemaitre felt relieved. Father O’Connell had well exercised his legendary discretion in obtaining that the Pope, by his silence, vindicate Lemaitre’s integrity as a physicist.
"Lemaitre wanted his Hypothesis of the Primeval Atom (Big Bang) to be judged soley as a physical theory, and exclusively on grounds of both mathematical consistency and adequation with observations and experiments. " The Big Bang and George Lemaitre edited by A. Berger
George Lemaitre was a Jesuit priest and astro-physicist from Belguim. Lemaitre wanted his theory to stand alone based on science not religion. He didn’t want the Vatican or Holy Father to openly embrace his theory. He said, “As far as I can see, such a theory remains entirely outside any metaphysical or religious question.”
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Cathryn
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I would like to add that at the time, much of the world outside the Catholic Church and rest of Christianity believed the universe to have always been and always would be. So, it was a welcome theory of science by Christianity for some backup from science that the universe had a definite beginning. I also think this is why the idea appealed to so many in the Catholic Church including Fr. Lemaitre. It’s because of the Big Bang Theory that nowadays most everyone acknowledges that the universe had a beginning.
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ThuribleGuy45
Guest
In its discussion of Matrimony, the CCC quotes Pius XII’s Address to Italian Midwives (1951) regarding that “spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment” referring to the marital act. That always struck me as pretty “liberal” - especially in 1951, and even today - Procreative and Unitive are what the Church teaches, which are very different than mere “pleasure and enjoyment.”
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Cathryn
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This is Catholic teaching now. Seems the same to me. Neither teach mere “pleasure and enjoyment”.
Pius XII wasn’t being liberal, just presenting Catholic teaching.
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otjm
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You need to undestand something. Labels, such as "liberal’ and “conservative” are easy for people to apply, but have no meaning unless and until it is understood by the majority of people form what point or marker you are measuring.
Take, for example, a couple of political leaders.
If we consider Richard Nixon, and we are comparing him to Idi Amin, Nixon is more liberal than Idi; does that make him a liberal?
Or take Lyndon Johnson; compared to Ho Chi Minh he is a conservative. Does that make him a conservative? In both cases, the answer is yes, if you are in the spectrum between the two; however, if you are to the left of Nixon or the right of Johnson, it doesn’t.
Those who say that Pius 12th is a liberal suffer from two problems. The first is that they are more conservative than the Pope, thus making the Pope, for them, a liberal; but as we see above, that does not make the Pope a liberal in general; only in regards to where they stand.
The second issue is more troubling. It is a doctrine of the Church that the Pope and the Magisterium of the Church - that is, the bishops teaching in union with him, are protected from error by the Holy Spirit when officially teaching faith or morals. The issue of NFP and related means of regulating births have been taught publically as morally permissible by the Pope and the bishops in union with him; it is not something that is only his personal opinion.
They therefore have to have one of two positions: either they are denying that this issue is being taught by the Magisterium (and since it is taught officially by the Pope and the bishops have joined with him, we have the answer to that - they are flat wrong), or, they are denying part of the doctrine of the Church. In either case, their arguements are irrelevant ans about as valid as the claims of some who insist they are good Catholics who deny the validity of the pope himself - called sedevacantists
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Cathryn
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rwoehmke
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Pius XII died the same year I graduated College. Liberal is not the proper adjective or noun. For Pius XII “Saint” would be appropriate. He was a good and strong Pope, beloved by many including the many Jews saved from death in the camps through his efforts.
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Malcolm_McLean
Guest
A fundamentalist is disqualified from being a liberal, and also disqualified from believing in the big bang or evolution. However these scientific ideas have no other connection to liberalism. In
fact evolution presents many problems for liberals.
Most liberals are in reality creationists where it matters. They accept the evolution of the body, but not of human behaviour.
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havemercy
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And may he be raised to the altar soon!
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bones_IV
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I proudly wear Pius’s medal.
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sphilomena
Guest
I was in grade school when he was Pope and I remember good things about him. Read his encyclicals; I think there’s one about the Eucharist, if I recall correctly.The chief Rabbi of Rome converted because of Pius XII, and many Jews praised him after the war for saving millions of Jews (as did a headline in the NY Times). This is in opposition to all the errors intentionally spread about him.
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SemperFidelis
Guest
I definitely agree when it comes to his encyclicals. In my opinion Mystici Corporis is one of the best encyclicals of the last 75 years. His encyclical on the liturgy Mediator Dei was also very good. He was also a very pious man and did much to help stop the spread of Nazism, Fascism, and Communism. For the time in history he was Pope, he was the “perfect man for the job.” I pray for his canonization along with Bl. Pius IX and Leo XIII. To be honest, between Gregory XVI and Pius XII, there was no such thing as a bad Pope from what I’ve read. Maybe they should all be canonized.
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catharina
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Only guessing but it seems reasonable to guess that some conservatives considered Pius Xll to be liberal and some liberals considered Pius XII to be conservative.
Sounds like a familiar go-round as to views of the Papacy. I was alive for more than half of his Papcy and all in my life considered him to very holy.
Sounds like a familiar go-round as to views of the Papacy. I was alive for more than half of his Papcy and all in my life considered him to very holy.
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