Was Russia Ever Really Consecrated to the Virgin Mary, As She Had Requested?

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MrS:
all good questions… you really should search the other threads, and read what so many have taken much time to compile.

Perhaps Benedict XVI will put the controversy to rest… after all, he has choosen the name last used at the time of Fatima.
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Alrighty then. I’ll do a search on “Fatima” and see what I can come up with.

Thanks a heap!
 
Why did it take the church almost 70 years to carry out the consecration? After the miracle of the sun - I would think that the consecration should have been completed right fast - no?
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Well, first of all - the apparition was not approved right away.
The Church takes her time in discerning these types of situations.
I’m not exactly sure what year the approval took place.

An unsuccessful attempt at a consecration did take place at one time.
After JPII had been shot he requested to read the 3rd secret, and apparantly that is when he decided to proceed with the consecration.
Now that we know the secret, it is easy to see what made him make that decision.
 
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Lorarose:
Well, first of all - the apparition was not approved right away.
The Church takes her time in discerning these types of situations.
I’m not exactly sure what year the approval took place.

An unsuccessful attempt at a consecration did take place at one time.
After JPII had been shot he requested to read the 3rd secret, and apparantly that is when he decided to proceed with the consecration.
Now that we know the secret, it is easy to see what made him make that decision.
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The Church needed time to discern the sun swirling around and dancing - then plumbeting to the earth?

I don’t get it. That would’ve been enough for me to say “ok, these kids are telling the truth!”
 
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CindyGia:
I don’t understand why, if Russia was consecrated, would a priest take the efforts to start an entire organization to make the claim that the consecration had never been carried out as requested. This organization claims that “some type” of consecration took place back in 1984, but not as the Virgin Mary had requested in a public ceremoney with all the Bishops of the world.
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Pride. Fatima isn’t even why he was suspended. He refused to obey his superior.
 
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CindyGia:
The Church needed time to discern the sun swirling around and dancing - then plumbeting to the earth?

I don’t get it. That would’ve been enough for me to say “ok, these kids are telling the truth!”
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You are insightful!

Now, avoid those you think are inciteful.
 
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CindyGia:
The Church needed time to discern the sun swirling around and dancing - then plumbeting to the earth?

I don’t get it. That would’ve been enough for me to say “ok, these kids are telling the truth!”
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The Church always is very careful in discerning apparitions.
 
The Church needed time to discern the sun swirling around and dancing - then plumbeting to the earth?
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I don’t get it. That would’ve been enough for me to say “ok, these kids are telling the truth!”
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Sure…it’s good enough for you, but you are not in charge of presenting truth to billions of souls.
There has never been an approved apparition that did not go through a period of careful discernment and the test of time.
Look for a good book on the history of Church approved apparitions throughout the centuries and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
 
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CindyGia:
Oh thank goodness! Thank you so very much!
I looked into the website that was on this pamphlet, and one of the pages was titled: “In Defense of Father Gruner”

Is this guy excommunicated from the Church? I suppose now it makes sense why he would start an organization.
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I believe he may be excommunicated. Here

Sister Lucia said, after she announced that the Collegial Consecration of the World and Russia of March 25, 1984 was accepted by God and the Lord would keep His word, that it was **important ** that we continue the acts of reparation on First Saturdays so that the conversion of Russia will be more perfect. Here

Also

If you have ever read about Maxamillin Kolbe, well in his book he says that one day there shall be a statue of the Virgin Mary on top of the Kremlin.
I believe that will happen.Maximilian Kolbe see **14 **
 
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CindyGia:
The Church needed time to discern the sun swirling around and dancing - then plumbeting to the earth?

I don’t get it. That would’ve been enough for me to say “ok, these kids are telling the truth!”
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The sun dancing was definitley a supernatural event. That said, I’m sure that the Church likes to confirm that the supernatural events are indeed coming from God. A lot of “miracles” have been seen by many and have been determined not to come from God.

Here’s a good article on Fr. Gruner and the consecration of Fatima.

theotokos.org.uk/pages/fatima/ngruner/wanderer.html

You might also be interested to know that there are wild conspiracy theories that the 3rd secret hasn’t been revealed too.
 
this topic is a perfect candidate for the banned topics file … please
 
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bear06:
Here’s some other things you might want to read:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

tcrnews2.com/genfatima.html

And before one more person says something was word processed, I’d like to once again ask you to prove it? Sugenis is the one who likes to say it was purported. It’s yet another conspiracy theory.
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Excellent links bear06! Thank you.
I think this thread should also be closed since the topic has been discussed numerous times - that to which I had no idea.

I think I will always have certain questions regarding Fatima though; especially the fact of the miracle of the sun and the physical healings which took place directly after, and that these miraculous happenings had to be “discerned and researched?” I cannot fathom why such miracles would be looked upon as “suspicious” (by the Church) and that the consecration to the Virgin Mary came about 67 years later.

It seems to me that if JPII had never been shot, that maybe the consecration would never had been accomplished. It took the Pope being almost killed before this consecration came about. Very sad. The Church did not seem to take these prophesies of Our Lady seriously, until the attempt on JPII’s life. There just seems to be something “fishy” here if you ask me - but I’ll just accept the fact of what Sr. Lucia says and the documents of the Vatican.

Just my take is all. But still seems very sad.
 
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