Was there a Sungenis/Matatics Debate?

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Reformed_Rob

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I searched for recents posts about this, and concluded that there have been none since the alleged scheduled debate.

I’ve honestly tried to find out about the debate, before and after, but I still don’t know if it even happened!!

More importantly, I want to be the first person in my city to own a copy of the DVD or whatever of the debate. Not because I want to be awesome, just because there is at least one other person that wants it, and if I can beat him to it, I will be awesome like Spiderman!!!

Any help?? Maybe you could just give me clues, and it will be like the Hardy Boys. I’ll be Frank and my “friend” will be Joe and it will be a friendly competition. Wasn’t that their names, Frank and Joe?
 
From CAI:
Question 6- Debate with Gerry Matatics
Robert,
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I no longer see the banner for your debate with Gerry Matatics which was supposed to occur this fall. Furthermore, there is no mention of it on Gerry Matatics’ website either. Is the debate still on?
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Chris
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R. Sungenis: No, the debate is canceled. Mr. Matatics is more or less out of commission.
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God Bless,
RyanL
 
Ryan,

Thanks for the info!! I clicked on the link and saw Q/A #6.

BTW, I realize that the debate proposition was serious, I wasn’t meaning to make light of the issue, but I’ve learned to ease up and have a little fun too!!

Well, if there is no debate, maybe there is a Nancy Drew out there for me…:love:
 
So who is Matatics? I know of CAI, but I dont know who Matatics is nor what the issue of the debate was.
 
Catholic Dude:
So who is Matatics? I know of CAI, but I dont know who Matatics is nor what the issue of the debate was.
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Gerry Matatics and Scott Hahn were close friends, they were both Presbyterian pastors, and when Scott Hahn started looking seriously into Catholicism, he told Gerry, and Gerry tried hard to counter Scott’s conversion.

Obviously, Gerry ended up converting also. He has been an apologist like Scott Hahn for several years, debating protestants, he had his own apologetics apostolate, Biblical Foundations I think was the name of it. If he had a “specialty,” it was using the Bible specifically to argue for Catholic doctrines.

The new website of his is gerrymatatics.org and it is almost up-to-date with his new views. He is currently at some level of approaching (if not currently advocating…??) a sedevactantist view.

Gerry was scheduled to debate Bob Sungenis on the proposition “Does the Novus Ordo Mass Fullfill our Sunday Obligation?” on Saturday, Oct. 1, somewhere in Southern California. Sungenis was to argue the affirmative, Matatics the negative.

Sedevacantism will likely gain a lot of credibility if Matatics (who probably already is sedevacantist at heart) actually subscribes to it. Of course, there’s so many varieties of sedevacantist views, it’s hard to tell what he believes until he actually comes out and says it, and he’s taking his time doing that.

It’s understandable that many perhaps don’t know about Gerry, he isn’t so much into writing books as he is doing tapes and CD’s from talks and debates. Books tend to make a person more well known.

-Rob
 
After not having updated his web site since the end of June, Gerry now has added a new “Gerry’s Word” letter and has updated his biographical sketch. The sketch includes these telling words:

“[H]e is the only one of the band of Protestant-minister converts of the last twenty years to have fully embraced the traditional Catholic Faith, rejecting as constituting a counterfeit Catholicism all the doctrinal, liturgical, and moral novelties of the last forty years – and those who have sought to impose them (John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I & II, and Benedict XVI) – and attending exclusively the Traditional Latin Mass offered by validly-ordained Catholic priests.”

Read this carefully. Gerry rejects “all the doctrinal, liturgical, and moral novelties of the last forty years,” meaning he rejects Vatican II and the vernacular Mass (which, in talks, he has said is invalid).

He also rejects “those who have sought to impose them,” naming the last five popes. He doesn’t just say that he rejects the popes’ actions–he rejects them, apparently as popes.

He rejects the “novelties” because they “constitut[e] a counterfeit Catholicism,” and apparently he rejects the five popes because they too have been “counterfeit.”

Gerry certainly seems to be saying that he has adopted the full-throated sedevacantist position. In the current “Gerry’s Word” he promises to explain “a stunning discovery I made earlier this year — one that has brought about a major ‘paradigm shift’ in my understanding of the current crisis in Catholicism, and as a result has radically altered the entire approach of my apostolate.”

He says this announcement will have to wait “a few more days” until the next “Gerry’s Word.” It’s hard to say how long “a few more days” is.

The last time he said something like this (on June 30), he said the next “Gerry’s Word” would be posted in a week, and it took 15 weeks to get it online. This may mean that in exegeting Gerry we should not presume, as he presumes for Genesis, that a day is a period of 24 hours.

Will he finally come out of the sedevacantist closet? We’ll have to wait “a few more days” to see.
 
Reformed Rob:
Gerry Matatics and Scott Hahn were close friends, they were both Presbyterian pastors, and when Scott Hahn started looking seriously into Catholicism, he told Gerry, and Gerry tried hard to counter Scott’s conversion.

Obviously, Gerry ended up converting also. He has been an apologist like Scott Hahn for several years, debating protestants, he had his own apologetics apostolate, Biblical Foundations I think was the name of it. If he had a “specialty,” it was using the Bible specifically to argue for Catholic doctrines.

The new website of his is gerrymatatics.org and it is almost up-to-date with his new views. He is currently at some level of approaching (if not currently advocating…??) a sedevactantist view.

Gerry was scheduled to debate Bob Sungenis on the proposition “Does the Novus Ordo Mass Fullfill our Sunday Obligation?” on Saturday, Oct. 1, somewhere in Southern California. Sungenis was to argue the affirmative, Matatics the negative.

Sedevacantism will likely gain a lot of credibility if Matatics (who probably already is sedevacantist at heart) actually subscribes to it. Of course, there’s so many varieties of sedevacantist views, it’s hard to tell what he believes until he actually comes out and says it, and he’s taking his time doing that.

It’s understandable that many perhaps don’t know about Gerry, he isn’t so much into writing books as he is doing tapes and CD’s from talks and debates. Books tend to make a person more well known.

-Rob
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I dont understand how someone can take that view. Its so weak and unfounded and not to mention at the end of the day its no different than what Luther did.

As far as it gaining credibility, that just goes to show how much those type of people dont understand anything about tradtion and are simply jumping on a bandwagon.

Sedevacantism is so weak I dont know what to say, its like those dispensationalists and also I brings to mind Pope Pius XIII:
http://www.truecatholic.org/pix/p13-white1.jpg
 
Oh yeah, I forget, but Gerry was an on-staff apologist for some time with Catholic Answers. That was before “my time”

And apparently Gerry was one of James White’s first public/formal debate opponents, at least regarding the topic of Roman Catholicism:

From aomin.org page:

“During this time, James’ attention was turned to the issues surrounding Roman Catholicism. He engaged in his first debate in August of 1990 against Gerry Matatics, then staff apologist for Catholic Answers. Other debates followed quickly, including debates on the Papacy and the perseverance of the saints in December of 1990 (both against Matatics) and then on justification by faith and the Mass against Dr. Mitchell Pacwa (San Diego, 1991—click here to listen).”
 
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