Wasn't Jesus a Muslim?

[Reuben_J]

i have to confess that i have no intensions to read it , but i’m really interest to get your point , you can quote from it to proof your point no mattarhow long you will quote , but i will appreciate if you did that for me

i thought that there were hundreds of canons and gospeles and sects in first century , why i have to believe that the one which exists now is the right one .

anyway just give me your proofs that 12 aposteles believed in trinity

I know even if i provide you all the documents which have been discussed here extensively, it will not conclude this discussion. But it is all valid that you should ask me to show you because I am the one should do it.

But since we admit that we are not going to make any indepth study of this I will just quote you the Bible.

Peter said to them, “Repent aand be baptized, every one of you, in the name of **Jesus Christ **for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is made to you and your children and to all those far off, whomever the **Lord our God **will call.” Acts 3:38

This is quite close to the proof you want. Taken together witht he fact that Jesus mentioned about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit earlier on, the words spoken by Peter in the above verse should be construed as that he already understood the Trinity and now called other to believe in it by Baptism. It would make no sense if he did not believe in it himself.

okey i think that you made a confession about what i believe , such important issue in christianity faith jesus himself never teached it or confirmed it , such beliefs be added or as you said be understood in stages after the resurrection of jesus , but how many years was these stages ?

it was 300 years i think , right ?

Actually it is right from day one - that fateful day of Pentecost (Acts 2).

The Bible was canonized (made official) after year 300 but this knowledge was there all along with the Christians. The canon served many purpose but one of them was to streamline Christianity teaching as it began to spread worldwide. Earlier on the belief was propagated by the apostles and the local churches. Sometimes these apostles wrote letters to distant churches to confirm their faith and to impart teachings. Some of these letters made way to the Bible (canonized) because the Church deemed them appropriate enough that covered the theology the Church held.

I would like to draw your attention again to my statement that Christianity is a religion of apostolic witnesses and that the long line of Peter the apostle as the first Pope was never broken until today. So the belief in trinity is not somethig new in Christianity.

beside you confirmed quran either when you said that they understood that jesus was divine after his resurrection , when quran mentioned the discussion between jesus and his God in the judgment day

116 - And behold God will say: O Jesus the son of Mary didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God? he will say: glory to thee never could I say what I had no right (to say). had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in thine. for thou knowest in full all that is hidden.117 - Never said I to them aught except what thou didst command me to say, to wit, worship God, my lord and your lord; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them****;** when thou didst take me up thou wast the watcher over them, and thou art a witness to all things**.

okey

you too

There are differences in Christianity and Islam understanding of Judgment Day. Both believe in it but the detailed understanding differs. It is because of such similar belief that the Church is drawn to Muslims more than any others as people who worship the same God.

The difference in that Jesus (for Christians) will be the Judge.

May God continue to bless you and your family.

 

[Christos]

Interesting essay. At the end of the discussion, it is clear that no, Jesus was not a Muslim.

What did Jesus teach? Love your neighbor as yourself. Spread the word of God to all peoples.

What did Mahomet teach? 6 pillars

1. Confession (though not real confession) “There is no god but Allah and Mahomet is his messenger” - Problem! Jesus said that He IS the Word. No new prophets.
2. Prayer - 5 times a day toward Jerusalem until the Jews tossed him out, then towards Mecca.
3. Almsgiving. Nothing wrong with this one!
4. Fasting. On the surface okay, but remember Jesus taught that fasting should be a private thing, not talked about in public.
5. Pilgrimage. Hmmm. Must go to Mecca to participate in a Pagan ceremony involving blood sacrifice. Nope. Not Jesus at all.
6. Jihad.This has been taken differently over the years. During the life of Mahomet, it was a bloodthirsty “blood and souls for Satan” sort of thing. Later, it became more peaceful, especially when dealing with non-Arabian Muslims. In the times of the Ottoman (Osmanli) empire there were many occasions of Jews, Muslims and Christians living in harmony.

Now days the Jihad has again returned to the blood thirst of Mahomet and his minions.

Perhaps it is Islam which is currently undergoing Apostacy?

One thing to say…Go learn what Jihad means. STRUGGLE

 

[elwill]

I know even if i provide you all the documents which have been discussed here extensively, it will not conclude this discussion. But it is all valid that you should ask me to show you because I am the one should do it.

But since we admit that we are not going to make any indepth study of this I will just quote you the Bible.
Peter said to them, “Repent aand be baptized, every one of you, in the name of **Jesus Christ **for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is made to you and your children and to all those far off, whomever the **Lord our God **will call.” Acts 3:38

yes , quote from the bible . it will be the most sataistfied answers to me

so , how this verse proof trinity ? the verse didn’t say that jesus is God nor said that holy spirit is God , nor said that jesus , holyspirit and the God are the same one God

This is quite close to the proof you want. Taken together witht he fact that Jesus mentioned about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit earlier on, the words spoken by Peter in the above verse should be construed as that he already understood the Trinity and now called other to believe in it by Baptism. It would make no sense if he did not believe in it himself.

i actually can’t see the relation between your defination for trinity and what peter said here .

is that the most close verse for the trinity you have in the bible ?

Actually it is right from day one - that fateful day of Pentecost (Acts 2).

The Bible was canonized (made official) after year 300 but this knowledge was there all along with the Christians. The canon served many purpose but one of them was to streamline Christianity teaching as it began to spread worldwide. Earlier on the belief was propagated by the apostles and the local churches. Sometimes these apostles wrote letters to distant churches to confirm their faith and to impart teachings. Some of these letters made way to the Bible (canonized) because the Church deemed them appropriate enough that covered the theology the Church held.

I would like to draw your attention again to my statement that Christianity is a religion of apostolic witnesses and that the long line of Peter the apostle as the first Pope was never broken until today. So the belief in trinity is not somethig new in Christianity.

actually i agree with you , while i’m trying to bound with teaching of jesus , in contrary you bound with paul teaching instead of jesus
“If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31)

There are differences in Christianity and Islam understanding of Judgment Day. Both believe in it but the detailed understanding differs. It is because of such similar belief that the Church is drawn to Muslims more than any others as people who worship the same God.

The difference in that Jesus (for Christians) will be the Judge.

May God continue to bless you and your family.

you too

 

[sedonaman]

Endless CPU time and ink have been wasted on what the real jihad is, when the answer is simple:

…what is the real jihad, the jihad of inner, spiritual struggle or the jihad of war? Let’s turn to Bukhari (the Hadith) for the answer, as he repeatedly speaks of jihad. In Bukhari 97% of the jihad references are about war and 3% are about the inner struggle. So the statistical answer is that jihad is 97% war and 3% inner struggle. Is jihad war? Yes – 97%. Is jihad inner struggle? Yes – 3%. So if you are writing an article, you can make a case for either. But in truth, almost every argument about Islam can be answered by: all of the above.

 

[Reuben_J]

yes , quote from the bible . it will be the most sataistfied answers to me

so , how this verse proof trinity ? the verse didn’t say that jesus is God nor said that holy spirit is God , nor said that jesus , holyspirit and the God are the same one God

i actually can’t see the relation between your defination for trinity and what peter said here .

is that the most close verse for the trinity you have in the bible ?

actually i agree with you , while i’m trying to bound with teaching of jesus , in contrary you bound with paul teaching instead of jesus
“If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31)

you too

I don’t expect you to agree even if you understand what I am saying about the Trinity. I know you Muslims - you will not admit about the rationale of Trinity and many of you just can’t resist the temptation of ridiculing it. The only consolation, if any, for us when we try to explain the Trinity is so that Muslims will not be very ignorant about this belief; whether or not you believe or agree with it.

To separate Paul from Jesus and Christianity is rather old, elwill.

You know, both the Quran and the Bible can be explained in many ways. Many Muslims interpret the Quran differently as there are Christians interpreting the Bible differently. It is a matter of who are closer to the original intention of the book.

For example Muslims insist that the Holy Spirit is Mohammad whereas it is so clear that the Holy Spirit would speak to Jesus apostles. How could it be Mohammad who came 600 years later? But Muslims prefer to turn blind eyes to it.

Anyway, you have to be student of the Bible to appreciate my explanation. The Bible has to be understood in context and in the church.

Similarly I cannot prove Islam wrong by the Quran. I only don’t believe in it. It is more honest to say that rather than to argue with you about the Quran.

However I put up a thread about the so-called miracle of the Quran because the claim that it is beautiful beyond compare. I only argue about that claim because it is so subjective. However you add another dimension to it by saying it is scientifically proven. By saying that you make the discussion or argument rather become public property and we are free to critique it.

God bless you.

 

[sedonaman]

…
Similarly I cannot prove Islam wrong by the Quran.
…

This analysis does.

… since Islam inherently and repeatedly relies on Judaism and Christianity being of divine origin, the claims and sacred texts of Judeo-Christianity would have to be compatible with Islam. If the sacred texts of Judeo-Christianity contradict Islam while Islam upholds their reliability and divine origin, then Islam is in contradiction of itself.
On the one hand, Islam claims Judeo-Christianity and its sacred texts originate from God and from other apostles like Mohammed. But on the other hand, what if these religions and their sacred texts deny or contradict Islam? This would mean either one of two things.
First, Mohammed and Islam are in contradiction of what the Koran itself repeatedly declares to be God’s apostles and God’s scriptures. Or second, Judeo-Christianity and its sacred texts are incorrect on all points and issues where they contradict Islam. But if the Judeo-Christian apostles and scriptures, which the Koran affirms as God’s work, are in error, then they cannot be God’s work as the Koran claims. And that would mean that the Koran is in error for affirming them as God-given predecessors, in which case Islam would also be nullified.
In either case, if the Judeo-Christian beliefs and sacred texts contradict Islam and the Koran, then Islam is in error through contradiction, not just contradiction with Judeo-Christianity, but contradiction with itself because of the endorsement claims made by the Koran.

 

[cthulhubryan]

One thing to say…Go learn what Jihad means. STRUGGLE

Thank you for making my point all the clearer. Struggle should be struggle. Struggle to keep your ways against the world. Not a vicious murderous rampage to eviscerate those who disagree with you.

Blood and Souls for my lord Arioch was a line from Michael Moorcock’s Elric series and should not be used by sane adult men in a religious sense. Any deity that would want you to go and seek blood and souls is not worth worshiping.

 

[elwill]

I don’t expect you to agree even if you understand what I am saying about the Trinity. I know you Muslims - you will not admit about the rationale of Trinity and many of you just can’t resist the temptation of ridiculing it. The only consolation, if any, for us when we try to explain the Trinity is so that Muslims will not be very ignorant about this belief; whether or not you believe or agree with it.

To separate Paul from Jesus and Christianity is rather old, elwill.

You know, both the Quran and the Bible can be explained in many ways. Many Muslims interpret the Quran differently as there are Christians interpreting the Bible differently. It is a matter of who are closer to the original intention of the book.

For example Muslims insist that the Holy Spirit is Mohammad whereas it is so clear that the Holy Spirit would speak to Jesus apostles. How could it be Mohammad who came 600 years later? But Muslims prefer to turn blind eyes to it.

Anyway, you have to be student of the Bible to appreciate my explanation. The Bible has to be understood in context and in the church.

Similarly I cannot prove Islam wrong by the Quran. I only don’t believe in it. It is more honest to say that rather than to argue with you about the Quran.

However I put up a thread about the so-called miracle of the Quran because the claim that it is beautiful beyond compare. I only argue about that claim because it is so subjective. However you add another dimension to it by saying it is scientifically proven. By saying that you make the discussion or argument rather become public property and we are free to critique it.

God bless you.

do you think that the trinity concept is very clear in this verse , but it’s me who out of hypocrisy don’t admit the clear truth of trinity within it ?

just wanna to assure you , that i really can’t see trinity in this verse , may be i can fit the teaching of church to convince my self that it refere to trinity
but honestly from very rational view , i can’t see how you consider the trinity to be main beliefs of christianity and main massage of jesus through such verse ?

any way , i enjoyed the discussion with you
thank you for your effort with me , i really appreciate that

God bless you and guide you to his way