We dont have to believe in God and in Jesus

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edwinG

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After my renewed interest in God and in the scriptures,about 6 years ago, I came to the realisation that I didn’t have to believe in Him or in Jesus or in the Holy Spirit. I wondered then what I had to believe in. Then I realised it was His promise especially to me. It is very easy to believe in God, ( which is not necessary) but can we believe in His promises to us in **all **aspects. I dont mean just our redemption, I mean in all things.
I had better explain the header as well. We dont have to believe in God as His witness, the Holy Spirit, living and moving in us and leading us to Jesus, means it is a fact, for we have the physical reality and therefore “belief” is not necessary, because we know without doubt.
Can the people who access the original words and dictionarys tell me what redeem means, I see it as “buy back”. Is this the original meaning.
Christ be with youhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
walk in love
edwinG
 
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mrS4ntA:
Is this one of those crazy follow-ups of the heresy of OSAS?
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Hi mrS4ntA,
I don’ t know because I dont know anything about OSAS.

But I doubt it as it is pure Jesus.
Ask yourself , if your name was Peter and you were with Jesus and before He had come you read all about Him personally so He was not a surprise, would you have to Believe. No because you Know. Now , how much of what He says relates to you? How much can and do you believe?
Me, I know Jesus is alive and I know God exists. IT is not something I have to believe.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
Jesus said to him, “Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.” (John 20:29)

Your starting assumption invalidates your whole theory. You say we don’t have to believe because we can see and therefore we know. However, the truth is we cannot see Jesus, God the Father, or the Holy Spirit with our physical eyes, not under normal circumstances. Also, even though Peter could see Jesus, he still had to believe. Peter could have chosen not to believe, even though he could see with his physical eyes.

For instance, I can see somebody steal something from a store. However, I can choose either to believe or not believe that that person stole something. However illogical it seems to not believe something when you see it with your physical eyes, we do have the choice. Belief, Faith, is necessary.
 
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edwinG:
Hi mrS4ntA,
I don’ t know because I dont know anything about OSAS.

But I doubt it as it is pure Jesus.
Ask yourself , if your name was Peter and you were with Jesus and before He had come you read all about Him personally so He was not a surprise, would you have to Believe. No because you Know. Now , how much of what He says relates to you? How much can and do you believe?
Me, I know Jesus is alive and I know God exists. IT is not something I have to believe.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
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to know and to believe are two different things. True, you have to know Him. But believing in Him is still an obligation that cannot be negated by knowing Him. I think
 
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edwinG:
Me, I know Jesus is alive and I know God exists. IT is not something I have to believe.
edwinG/QUOTE]
I think you are playing with symantics. Each of the words “Believe”, “Know”, and “Faith” have more than one definition. They both share some common elements and in other ways are quite different. In short there is some overlap between all three but each also includes other connotations. What are you trying to prove by making your original statement?
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Dear Edwin,

I don’t agree with you about the usage of the word “believe.”

When I say I “believe” something, I mean I am sufficiently convinced that I will stake my own credibility on it.

What you are using to “believe” as opposed, I guess, to “know,” I would term “believe through faith,” v. “believe through sight.”

Thomas believed because he saw. Those who do not see but still believe are doing it through faith.

If you believe you have seen or heard sufficient evidence that you don’t have to take it on faith that God exists, then I still would say you “believe” in Him, just that you don’t believe through faith but like Thomas.

Regardless of whether you agree with me on the use of the word “believe” does it sound like am I grasping the meaning of what you’re saying by comparing your “belief” to that of Thomas?

Alan
 
Directly from the Catechism:

Faith is certain. It is more certain than all human knowledge because it is founded on the very word of God who cannot lie.

Chapter 3, Article 1, I 157
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect1chpt3.htm

Our friend Edwin seems to be enlightening us.

Greg
 
Theologically, I can only truly believe if I obey.

Since you are not obeying, your belief is seriously lacking.

Say some prayers and find a good spiritual director and quite relying on private interpretation.
 
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MrS:
Say some prayers and find a good spiritual director and quite relying on private interpretation.
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If the Catechism clearly states:
“It is more certain than all human knowledge”

Then I think it is uncharitable to tell him to find a spiritual director when he is in full agreement with the Catechism. Perhaps you should seek the spiritual director who can teach you to be appreciative and supportive of others’ sincere expressions of insight and faith.😛

Edwin isn’t saying we don’t need to believe, he is just sharing an insight that faith is so certain (as the Catechism says) that the meaning of “belief” has a different connotation.

You know, Catholicism isn’s supposed to be so boring that we can’t even think for ourselves. We are to unite with God. Sounds like Edwin is expessing the joy of his union with God, the very fruit of Catholicism. 👍

And then we tell him he needs a spiritual director? :confused:

I appreciate your insight Edwin and I am very happy that you are confident in your faith and enjoying God.🙂

Greg
 
Actually, I noticed that Edwin is not Catholic. Well, Edwin it looks like your insight is in agreement with the Catholic Catechism. Have you considered visiting a parish near you? The priest will welcome you!

Greg
 
Faith is knowledge. In fact, supernatural Faith is the only certain knowledge one can have of the Christian revelation. To grasp Divinely revealed supernatural truths, you need a supernatural virtue, faith. We do not believe in God on the balance of probabilities.
 
Dear friends

I know because I believe, that is what faith is and a perseverance until death.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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