We Might Be Committing Idolatry?

[Blue_Cricket]

Hmmmm . . .

How about:

If you love your neighbor more than yourself, you are idolizing your neighbor.
If you love your neighbor less than yourself, you are idolizing yourself.
If you love God less than the both of you, you are idolizing some creature(s) over God.

That said:

God (in His Perfect Divinity) we should love with all our hearts, souls, minds, and strengths.
God (in His Perfect Humanity) is also out of His Meek and Humble Incarnation our Neighbor, Who we should try to also have the courage to love as ourselves.

Jesus’ Mother (Mary the Immaculate Conception) herself is not worshiped, but specially recognized as the fully human mother that Christ himself honored by obeying the 4th Commandment for her at the Wedding Feast at Cana, then providing for her by adopting her to St. John while they both stood at the foot of the Cross.

Sorry if I rambled or went over the obvious.

 

[fredms3]

I disagree with the idea that we are nothing in the eyes of God. Such an idea flies in the face of the fact that, “God so loved the world (us) that He sent His only begotten Son…”

Allowing such thinking can lead to despair so I urge you to purge this from your mind.

We may be unworthy servants and disobedient and undeserving children, but we are most definitely NOT “nothingness in the eyes of God”…

As to our incapacity to Love God as he deserves…This is quite true and is the basis for the second Great commandment as set forth in Mt 22:36-40. We love God to our fullest capacity by Loving our neighbors as ourselves.

Peace
James

I think you miscontrued what i mean there…When i say ‘our nothingness in the eyes of God’ i mean our being sinfulness, our unworthiness before His very eyes because of not being able to love God, the way we should be. And that is from our standpoint.

Now, from the standpoint of God, definitely God loves us very much…John 3:16 and no can deny that.

 

[JRKH]

I think you miscontrued what i mean there…When i say ‘our nothingness in the eyes of God’ i mean our being sinfulness, our unworthiness before His very eyes because of not being able to love God, the way we should be. And that is from our standpoint.

Thank your for the clarification. However, I still disagree with it - even from our standpoint.
It is true that we must recognize the sinfulness of our human nature and how horrible that is. BUT -
Once we have turned away from sin through Baptism and Confirmation and Confession etc…once we are reborn in the lamb, becoming adopted children of God and members of his Kingdom, we should seek to Look up in hope and joy and childlike faith to our heavenly Father - not as “nothing in his eyes”, but as loving and obedient children, servants and members of the household.
Of course, (and just speaking personally) when I fall into sin, I feel terrible and wish to “hide my face” from Him, but at the same time I know that I must not hide. Instead I must come to Him quickly, confess my guilt, ask forgiveness and promise to make amends. I don’t see how one can do this if they constantly feel they are, “nothing in His eyes”.

There is a reason that Jesus told us that the gate to heaven is narrow. Too far one way and we fall into despair. To far the other way and we fall into presumption.

Now, from the standpoint of God, definitely God loves us very much…John 3:16 and no can deny that.

Amen

Peace
James

 

[fredms3]

Thank your for the clarification. However, I still disagree with it - even from our standpoint.
It is true that we must recognize the sinfulness of our human nature and how horrible that is. BUT -
Once we have turned away from sin through Baptism and Confirmation and Confession etc…once we are reborn in the lamb, becoming adopted children of God and members of his Kingdom, we should seek to Look up in hope and joy and childlike faith to our heavenly Father - not as “nothing in his eyes”, but as loving and obedient children, servants and members of the household.
Of course, (and just speaking personally) when I fall into sin, I feel terrible and wish to “hide my face” from Him, but at the same time I know that I must not hide. Instead I must come to Him quickly, confess my guilt, ask forgiveness and promise to make amends. I don’t see how one can do this if they constantly feel they are, “nothing in His eyes”.

There is a reason that Jesus told us that the gate to heaven is narrow. Too far one way and we fall into despair. To far the other way and we fall into presumption.

Amen

Peace
James

Ok. Now, i just would like to clarify something with you. If you disagree with my point regarding our ‘nothingness’ from our standpoint — are you saying then that you are ‘something’ before God?

 

[fredms3]

Hmmmm . . .

How about:

If you love your neighbor more than yourself, you are idolizing your neighbor.
If you love your neighbor less than yourself, you are idolizing yourself.
If you love God less than the both of you, you are idolizing some creature(s) over God.

That said:

God (in His Perfect Divinity) we should love with all our hearts, souls, minds, and strengths.
God (in His Perfect Humanity) is also out of His Meek and Humble Incarnation our Neighbor, Who we should try to also have the courage to love as ourselves.

Jesus’ Mother (Mary the Immaculate Conception) herself is not worshiped, but specially recognized as the fully human mother that Christ himself honored by obeying the 4th Commandment for her at the Wedding Feast at Cana, then providing for her by adopting her to St. John while they both stood at the foot of the Cross.

Sorry if I rambled or went over the obvious.

I actually thought the point is rambled.

I’ll just say Love is one thing and Idol is another. How do you define idol in the context of your statement?

Loving does not necessarily mean your idolizing.

 

[JRKH]

Ok. Now, i just would like to clarify something with you. If you disagree with my point regarding our ‘nothingness’ from our standpoint — are you saying then that you are ‘something’ before God?

Of course we are ‘something’ before God. I am a work of God, born of man and reborn, through baptism, in the Spirit. I am a very “rough work” as God is still molding me, poor sinner that I am, but I remain His work…God does not “work” on “nothing”

God holds all things in existence. Would God, who loves us so much He sent his Son to redeem us, hold hold us in existence if we were nothing?? The obvious answer is no he would not. Therefore we are not “nothing” but indeed we are “something” - AND we are something worthwhile since God has not given up on us.

Jesus tells us to pray, “Our Father”…Do you believe that you are “nothing” when you stand before your father??

Now - perhaps I am not humble enough…or perhaps you are too humble…or perhaps we each, in our own way have a good understanding of our position before God at this point in our spiritual journey.

Let me now ask you for some clarification…
Since you see yourself as “nothing” before God, does this cause you to despair of your salvation?

Peace
James

 

[fredms3]

Of course we are ‘something’ before God. I am a work of God, born of man and reborn, through baptism, in the Spirit. I am a very “rough work” as God is still molding me, poor sinner that I am, but I remain His work…God does not “work” on “nothing”

God holds all things in existence. Would God, who loves us so much He sent his Son to redeem us, hold hold us in existence if we were nothing?? The obvious answer is no he would not. Therefore we are not “nothing” but indeed we are “something” - AND we are something worthwhile since God has not given up on us.

Jesus tells us to pray, “Our Father”…Do you believe that you are “nothing” when you stand before your father??

Now - perhaps I am not humble enough…or perhaps you are too humble…or perhaps we each, in our own way have a good understanding of our position before God at this point in our spiritual journey.

Let me now ask you for some clarification…
Since you see yourself as “nothing” before God, does this cause you to despair of your salvation?

Peace
James

What you’re answering is from the standpoint of God. We are really ‘something’ before God and we both agree with that right?

“Without God we are nothing” ---- I’m 100% sure that you agree with this also.

Not at all brother James. Seeing myself as ‘nothing’ before God does not cause me to despair in whatever way. Because i know that in accepting my ‘nothingness’ before Him, the more God will pour His graces upon me. That is letting God to be in the driver seat rather than me. And that what’s God wants us to be.

Let’s see what the Blesse Mother has to say in her Magnificat.
Mary’s Song
46 And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
50 His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.
51 He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
52 He has brought down rulers from their thrones
but has lifted up the humble.
53 He has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty.
54 He has helped his servant Israel,
remembering to be merciful
55 to Abraham and his descendants forever,
just as he promised our ancestors.”

 

[JRKH]

What you’re answering is from the standpoint of God. We are really ‘something’ before God and we both agree with that right?

“Without God we are nothing” ---- I’m 100% sure that you agree with this also.

Not at all brother James. Seeing myself as ‘nothing’ before God does not cause me to despair in whatever way. Because i know that in accepting my ‘nothingness’ before Him, the more God will pour His graces upon me. That is letting God to be in the driver seat rather than me. And that what’s God wants us to be.

Fair enough. The reason I wanted you to answer that question was to be check on what you meant when you used the term “nothing”. I would simply phrase things differently than you do is all…We agree in the essentials of this.

Peace
James

 

[qwfeghy]

Thanks for your posthttp://www.50centloseweight.com

 

[fredms3]

Fair enough. The reason I wanted you to answer that question was to be check on what you meant when you used the term “nothing”. I would simply phrase things differently than you do is all…We agree in the essentials of this.

Peace
James

Ah oks and thanks for the sharing. I apprecite that.

In Mama Mary,

Fred

 

[fredms3]

With respect to the words of Jesus Christ that ‘whoever loves his/her mother of father more than me is not worthy of me’.

In the Decalogue, God commanded us to honor our parents.

What therefore is the defining line such that we honor our parents but not going against Christ’s words.

 

[JRKH]

With respect to the words of Jesus Christ that ‘whoever loves his/her mother of father more than me is not worthy of me’.

In the Decalogue, God commanded us to honor our parents.

What therefore is the defining line such that we honor our parents but not going against Christ’s words.

See Mt 22:36-40

Peace
James

 

[fredms3]

For reference purposes…

Matthew 22:36-40
New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’** 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”**