We need to wake up

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Buddy1

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My thinking is correct in that we will not get to Heaven without everybody else. The Kingdom of God must happen on the earth as it it in Heaven. Its time to be woke!?
 
Lookie here, folks, looks like it’s time to talk about imminentizing the eschaton.

This was discussed a bit in a recent thread about the compatibility of progressivism and Catholicism. In short, the notion that human action can imminentize the eschaton is heresy.
 
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HopkinsReb said:
In short, the notion that human action can imminentize the eschaton is heresy.
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I appreciate your passion, but making a proclamation that a notion is heresy is very inaccurate and uncharitable…I’m not sure why, in theological discussions there is a need to label those we don’t agree with as heretics.
 
LML said:
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HopkinsReb:
In short, the notion that human action can imminentize the eschaton is heresy.
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I appreciate your passion, but making a proclamation that a notion is heresy is very inaccurate and uncharitable…I’m not sure why, in theological discussions there is a need to label those we don’t agree with as heretics.
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I’m pretty sure that this view has been declared as heretical. I’m open to correction.
 
Ah, here we go. CCC #676 rejects millenarianism:
The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism .
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Yes, ideas can be declared heretical. Arianism comes quickly to mind.
 
HopkinsReb said:
Yes, ideas can be declared heretical. Arianism comes quickly to mind.
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I’m not taking issue with your point, I am only taking issue with classifying it, uncategorically as heretical.

Rejection does not mean heretical.

CCC 2089 - " Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;

The key words are “obstinate” and “post-baptismal”, so, it is inaccurate and uncharitable to summarily declare that a “notion” is heretical…“Notion” may not even stand to the definition of Apostasy because it may lack “obstinate doubt”.

I cringe at the ease in which “heretical” is bantered about. Accusing, or even implying, one of being a heretic without full understanding could be viewed as an example of bearing false witness.
 
LML said:
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HopkinsReb:
Yes, ideas can be declared heretical. Arianism comes quickly to mind.
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I’m not taking issue with your point, I am only taking issue with classifying it, uncategorically as heretical.

Rejection does not mean heretical.

CCC 2089 - " Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;

The key words are “obstinate” and “post-baptismal”, so, it is inaccurate and uncharitable to summarily declare that a “notion” is heretical…“Notion” may not even stand to the definition of Apostasy because it may lack “obstinate doubt”.

I cringe at the ease in which “heretical” is bantered about. Accusing, or even implying, one of being a heretic without full understanding could be viewed as an example of bearing false witness.
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Fair enough, though, in my defense, I am never wrong on purpose.
 
Buddy1 said:
My thinking is correct in that we will not get to Heaven without everybody else. The Kingdom of God must happen on the earth as it it in Heaven. Its time to be woke!?
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There will be people missing from Heaven. Based on Jesus’ words, there will sadly be quite a few. We must focus on our own salvation, while also helping lead others to God, but we have no guarantee of the salvation of either.

We cannot create Heaven on Earth, that is outside of our power. The Earth will never be a paradise, at least not until after the resurrection. We should not strive to make Earth into Heaven, we should strive to live the will of God and make the world better. We can take it closer to Heaven through our individual actions, but we will never be able to actually create a perfect society. That is the pipe dream of fascists.
 
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isnt walking with Jesus making a heaven on earth. I dont understand why what god would allow one of his rebels to takehis children to hell… I do believe as our beliefs are fought over we are creating Hell on earth. Why are pedofiles in the church and proud gay human beings who live there days in love and acceptance. Jesus preached love and kindness if fact, one being will judge us on how we lived our life and loved our family, God and the universe included. For a Deity filled with unconditional love the people who tell me Im going to hell because I wont disown a family member because he sins… EVERY HUMAN IS BORN IN SIN. what we learn from these mistakes is part of the lessons of love and life, forgiving our brothers and sisters etc
Jesus seemed to be a genuin kind educated soul. we need to create that Heaven on earth. I dont want my final resting place for eternity apart from the loved ones ive connected with
 
seekingpeacetoo said:
why what god would allow one of his rebels to takehis children to hell
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He doesn’t. The demons can tempt us, but the ultimate decision is up to each individual.
seekingpeacetoo said:
Why are pedofiles in the church and proud gay human beings who live there days in love and acceptance.
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Because the Church is full of sinful individuals, just like every institution. We are a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints.
seekingpeacetoo said:
Jesus preached love and kindness
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Actually, He didn’t. Jesus preached love and Truth. The Truth is not always kind. When Jesus saw people sinning, he forgave them, but also required of them that they “go and sin no more.” He also made a bullwhip and drove sinful people out of the temple. True love is not always kind in the worldly sense of the word.
seekingpeacetoo said:
For a Deity filled with unconditional love the people who tell me Im going to hell because I wont disown a family member because he sins
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You don’t have to disown your sinful family members, you should continue to love them while recognizing that their actions are sinful and leading them away from God.
seekingpeacetoo said:
I dont want my final resting place for eternity apart from the loved ones ive connected with
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You’re look at it all wrong. That’s okay, it’s a very human thing to do. We are concerned about our human relationships, they are very important, and we should use them to guide people to God; but they are not the meaning of life, they are not the purpose for our existence.

God is the reason for our existence, He is the meaning of life. If our human relationships get in the way of our life with God, then we need to set them aside. We could be loved by every last person on Earth, but if that love comes at the expense of our relationship with God then it will be for nothing.

This is a very hard thing for us to come to terms with. It’s very troubling to consider that we may be separated from our loved ones for all eternity. But that is reality. People can chose against God, and there are consequences for that choice. The most loving thing we can do for our family members is to pray for them and guide them to God as best we can.
 
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They’re not really my ideas, but sure.

Where are you wanting to share them? To be honest, they probably won’t be received well.
 
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