Wearing fur?

[punisherthunder]

I had an argument with a girl yesterday on this topic. She told me that she would never own a fur coat because it was immoral and wrong. I told her that John the Baptist wore a garment made from camel hair. She said animals were for eating and not wearing. But I argued that God put them here for more than one purpose. Anyone own a fur and have someone argue that point? Any thoughts on this?

 

[puzzleannie]

how many camels died to make John’s garment? it could have been woven with camel hair, in which case the PETA people of his day could rest easy. Or does your friend also avoid woolen clothing.

 

[bogeyjlg]

I have a hat made of rabbits. I don’t know how many. But since I am bald it keeps my head warm. I am quite certain that those rabbits (or rabbit) were put to good use. Or at least I think so.

 

[bogeyjlg]

Besides, creation was made to serve man.

 

[Forest-Pine]

We have a responsibility to be stewards of God’s creation. We may use them for our needs and desires, but we cannot be cruel or otherwise disrespectful of the abundance God has given us. To desire to effect change through the power of the checkbook is definitely within our rights.

John, if your example is true, using a camel hair jacket to keep himself warm during what was most likely freezing desert nights (with nothing to keep the heat on the ground in the desert, it goes from scorching hot to freezing cold quite quickly) would be quite different from Betty-Sue of Middle Class America wearing a fur jacket as a status symbol of her wealth.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a fur coat. As a matter of fact, it would seem quite wasteful to have killed an animal for food (as your friend does say is fine) and not to use other parts of it. I am reminded that children played ball with --I believe–pig’s bladders at one point in time, not to mention the fact that clothing and shelter were historically from animal skins. I am not arguing in the least that these are immoral.

There is also nothing inherently wrong with being horrified at the blatant abuse of our power (by this I mean not putting it into perspective of where our power comes from–the Lord–and not displaying responsibility in our actions) many fur hunters display in their wanton regard for the animals and their ecosystems as a whole just to turn a quick buck in the off-season so that J-Lo can have some fluffy stuff on the collar of her latest runway rendition. What I am arguing is that your friend is perfectly within her rights to take the position she does (not wanting to own one) and you are perfectly within yours to wear a fur coat. The morality of it, however, would depend upon the individual’s intent and knowledge and how far removed from the situation the person was.

Situation 1: You are hungry and cold and your family could easily freeze to death. You are out on a camping trip that has gone horribly awry. Help won’t reach you for days. You see a mother bear with two cubs in tow. You kill the bears in a display of bravery and stupidity by beating them to death with a club you fashioned from your pick ax and a tree branch. You use the meat to eat and the fur for clothing and shelter. Surely, your family would not need three bears’ worth of meat. The fur was necessary. Nothing was immoral.

Situation 2: You enjoy hunting. You are the average hunter in normal America. You have access to grocery stores and such. You and the guys go out hunting and you kill a couple deer and some fish. You use the deer for meat and the antlers to make tools. You did not NEED to go hunting, but you did. And you were respectful and understanding of where your power over creation comes from. Nothing immoral.

Situation 3: You are feeling rather hateful. You don’t want to take your anger out on people. You instead brutally torture and kill your house cat. That is immoral. And using his skin to justify it would be sick.

Situation 4: You are a writer. You usually don’t sell anything in December. A guy comes up to you and says he will hire you to take a machine gun into the woods and obliterate anything that moves for the heck of it. In 3 days time, you have killed practically every living animal in the woods. You didn’t care about the animals, it was just a way to turn a quick buck. I say this is immoral. It also is pretty much what happens in the fur industry. All of it is shipped off to the Western hemisphere for usage in the clothing industry. It is hard to see this as the equivalent of situations 1 or 2 above.

Here is a list of frequently asked questions concerning the seal hunt: FAQ
And here is where you can see the seal hunt in action (windows media player), which is definitely worth the watching: [US Humane Society](http://stream.realimpact.net/?file=realimpact/hsus/seal-hunt/rebecca3-29package-hunt.wmv&type=wmv)

 

[Forest-Pine]

bogeyjlg:

Besides, creation was made to serve man.

I disagree. Creation was made to serve God; man and beast alike. Not we to God, beasts to us. We do have dominion over the animals, but it is not an absolute. We owe the animals kindness. And our interactions with animals require a religious respect for their integrity. As the entirity of the relevant section of the catechism is quite short, I will quote it here:

2415 The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity.[194] Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man’s dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation.[195]

2416 Animals are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.[196] Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.

2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image.[197] Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice, if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.

2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

 

[MooCowSteph]

I don’t wear fur for all the standard touchy feely reasons, but I do wear leather, (and enjoy doing so!) so I guess I am a hypocrite. And I am sure there are quite a few people out there who would never DREAM of wearing fur, but don’t think twice about their leather shoes or gloves.

 

[1ke]

Wearing fur, leather, etc, is not immoral or wrong. Your friend has listened to too many PETA commercials and has started to believe the whole “animals are people too” hype. This is untrue. Animals can be used for food and clothing. We are to be good stewards, and not exhibit cruelty to animals, but in no way is it sinful to use them for food or clothing.

But, what may be immoral is the motive of doing so. If it is to impress, then pride or vanity may be the sinful act.

 

[CatholicSam]

punisherthunder:

I had an argument with a girl yesterday on this topic. She told me that she would never own a fur coat because it was immoral and wrong. I told her that John the Baptist wore a garment made from camel hair. She said animals were for eating and not wearing. But I argued that God put them here for more than one purpose. Anyone own a fur and have someone argue that point? Any thoughts on this?

If you’re going to eat the animal, it’s going to be dead one way or another. What is wrong with using every part of an animal? Eating the choicest parts of the meat and discarding the fur and everything else that can be used is wasteful!

 

[tom.wineman]

I bet she would re-think that if she was born an Eskimo and lived at the North Pole

---

Didn’t God fit out Adam and Eve in animal skins after he found them running around in fig leaves after the fall ?

 

[2shelbys]

The PETA people I really love are the numbskulls who throw red paint on furs. All they are doing is increasing the demand for fur. The damaged coat is paid for by insurance and then it is replaced with another one just like it. Now twice as many animals have been used to produce one coat.

 

[CatholicSam]

2shelbys:

The PETA people I really love are the numbskulls who throw red paint on furs. All they are doing is increasing the demand for fur. The damaged coat is paid for by insurance and then it is replaced with another one just like it. Now twice as many animals have been used to produce one coat.

And they might as well step in the can of red paint with their leather shoes while they’re at it

 

[sparkle]

punisherthunder:

I had an argument with a girl yesterday on this topic. She told me that she would never own a fur coat because it was immoral and wrong. I told her that John the Baptist wore a garment made from camel hair. She said animals were for eating and not wearing. But I argued that God put them here for more than one purpose. Anyone own a fur and have someone argue that point? Any thoughts on this?

Yep. I have a cousin who professes she will never wear fur and she’s a vegan. However, she wears leather shoes and has leather bags, so what’s this all about?

I happen to LOVE fur, had a rabbit jacket once when I was younger and wore it to threads. I have several “fur” jackets now which I love, but I know they’re all fake fur. I do think it awful to take an animals life to make a coat----but wouldn’t go so far as to call it “immoral”. Don’t know if I’d wear a real one for this fact, especially when there’s so many beautiful ones out there that don’t take an animal’s life Definately something to think about! If people boycotted real fur, it’d save thousands of animals’ lives!
Eathing is different. God gave humans animals to eat, but not for anything else, when you think about it. Also I have a few leather jackets…gosh that’s a thought too!!! Good post!!!

 

[sententia]

So we are supposed to eat the cow but throw away his hide?!?

Too bad for all those lovely V-boss hide pullers then.

 

[wisdom_3_5]

MooCowSteph:

I don’t wear fur for all the standard touchy feely reasons, but I do wear leather, (and enjoy doing so!) so I guess I am a hypocrite. And I am sure there are quite a few people out there who would never DREAM of wearing fur, but don’t think twice about their leather shoes or gloves.

True, but we are more likely to eat a hamburger than mink meat. I think the problem comes when we don’t use as much of the animal as possible and whatever we’re making is more for status than survival. Fur is warm but we have other options now.

Does anyone know of anyone who eats chinchilla, mink, fox etc.? I’ve heard of some eating squirrel and rabbit, but not those.

 

[MooCowSteph]

wisdom 3:5:

True, but we are more likely to eat a hamburger than mink meat. I think the problem comes when we don’t use as much of the animal as possible and whatever we’re making is more for status than survival. Fur is warm but we have other options now.

Does anyone know of anyone who eats chinchilla, mink, fox etc.? I’ve heard of some eating squirrel and rabbit, but not those.

This is an important distinction, and one I failed to make. Guess I’m OK with not wanting to wear fur while I pad around in my leather loafers.

 

[CatholicSam]

MooCowSteph:

This is an important distinction, and one I failed to make. Guess I’m OK with not wanting to wear fur while I pad around in my leather loafers.

MooCowSteph, but have you considered the moral implications of wearing an animal as your screen name?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I eat rabbit, when I can find it. It was a mainstay during WWII in the U.S. and the UK, when meat was rationed and/ or hard to come by. It tastes like (dare I say it) chicken, for the most part.

Therefore, by the logic presented here on several fronts, I am entitled to wear rabbit fur.

I also eat BEEF in a big way. Therefore, I am entitled to run around in a cow skin, or leather for that matter, and eat a lot of Jello.

I don’t want to think about what I could do with all the chicken feathers that never make their way here.

Take a peek at Forest Pine’s post, the two bottom references out of the Catechism (2417 and 2418). It pretty much sums it up: Utilize your relationships with animals wisely and prudently. Don’t treat them with unusual cruelty, as they are God’s creations. Don’t treat them as humans, treating your house cat or dog better than you would treat your suffering neighbor.

 

[koda]

I don’t wear fur. Generally, the animals that are raised for fur are not eaten, they simply serve man’s vanity. As to John the Baptist, they didn’t have man made fabrics like we do now,so to keep warm they had to use animal skins/hides. As for the Eskimos or any people who live a traditional way of life off of the land, they only use what they need, and they use every part of the animal. They respect that natural resources are finite. Mink, etc. are raised and killed so that people can wear them as a status symbol/luxury item. We don’t need fur to keep warm.

As for leather, we do eat the meat so there is justification for using the hide. However, factory farming is terribly cruel and I try to buy my beef from family farms that raise their stock in a humane manner.

God made us the stewards of the rest of creation. We need to treat it with dignity and respect. Instead we tend to pollute air and water, destory habitats and drive entire species into extinction.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

koda:

I don’t wear fur. Generally, the animals that are raised for fur are not eaten, they simply serve man’s vanity. As to John the Baptist, they didn’t have man made fabrics like we do now,so to keep warm they had to use animal skins/hides. As for the Eskimos or any people who live a traditional way of life off of the land, they only use what they need, and they use every part of the animal. They respect that natural resources are finite. Mink, etc. are raised and killed so that people can wear them as a status symbol/luxury item. We don’t need fur to keep warm.

As for leather, we do eat the meat so there is justification for using the hide. However, factory farming is terribly cruel and I try to buy my beef from family farms that raise their stock in a humane manner.

God made us the stewards of the rest of creation. We need to treat it with dignity and respect. Instead we tend to pollute air and water, destory habitats and drive entire species into extinction.

While there is animal cruelty, MY OPINION HERE I think a lot of what you state is propaganda brought about by such organizations as PETA. The air in the US is actually better than it has been in over 75 years, based on government and private invesitgation.

As for destroying habitats- Some “green” laws are so destructive to human beings that they take the value of rodents over a person’s right to till their soil! Land is stolen from people under the guise of “keeping the wet lands” or “making the animals a habitat”.

I will not make my usual statement in this instance (PETA and the group People for Eating Tasty Animals), but I will state that the Catechism clearly states how we are to treat the earth and animals: Not with the consideration due humans, not with cruelty and mallice, but with a balance in our actions.

For the record- I don’t object to the wearing of fur, but I hate the upkeep. I like the fabrics at Lands End.