Wedding Mass Obligation

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FrDavid96 said:
Sorry, but you can’t create your own doubt (or use someone else’s creative creation) and then use canon 14 to justify it.
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I understand this is how you would write canon law if you were the supreme legislator, but how do you justify this claim from the current canon law? The words in canon 14 are to be interpreted according to their proper meaning, without the introduction of any additional words.

The various canon law commentaries say 4pm, or noon, with other possibilities in between as well. This is actual, real doubt, according to the proper meaning of the word “doubt”.
 
tee_eff_em said:
[thread=293697]We have been down this road before[/thread].

I have no reason to believe the destination will differ this trip. 🤷

tee
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Good point. I’ll shut up now! 😃

It would be nice to see some canonical analyses for the noon and other time cutoff answers.
 
Just_Lurking said:
I understand this is how you would write canon law if you were the supreme legislator, but how do you justify this claim from the current canon law? The words in canon 14 are to be interpreted according to their proper meaning, without the introduction of any additional words.

The various canon law commentaries say 4pm, or noon, with other possibilities in between as well. This is actual, real doubt, according to the proper meaning of the word “doubt”.
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I have been explaining it to you–you’ve ignored the explanation.

You also continue to persistently ignore the interpretation of the law as offered by the lawgiver–Pope John Paul II. Why? His words won’t go away just because you refuse to acknowledge them.

I am not the one offering the interpretation. Pope John Paul II who was the supreme legislator at the time, and who was the legislator who promulgated canon law in 1983 is the one offering the interpretation. I’m merely citing his words.

Are you under the impression that Pope John Paul II was not capable of offering an interpretation of his own law?

There is no doubt about the meaning of the law when the lawgiver explains what he meant whan he promulgated the law; therefore canon 14 does not apply. It doesn’t matter how many timed you quote it, it still won’t apply. I haven’t addressed the canon because it’s not relevant.

Just because you continue to ignore the facts, they still won’t go away.
 
I will make this brief, though I acknowledge it is repetitious. I still have not gotten a fully acceptable answer. [Mind you, I agree with Pope JP II and Fr. David that evening begins at 4 PM.]

If someone attends a Wedding Mass Saturday at 2PM and does not attend a Mass Sunday, has he committed a mortal sin if he has no good reason for not going on Sunday? It can’t depend upon whom he accepts to be an authoritative voice. How do you top the Pope?? Just here on CAF he could find conflicting answers. Is it up to his local bishop? Even that doesn’t sound right to me. What is a mortal sin in New York may not be in Houston??? Objective truth vs. subjective truth? Am I missing something here?

This is my [most recent] confusion in a nutshell! (I know - I’m full of them!!!)

Thank you.
 
LindaSK said:
If someone attends a Wedding Mass Saturday at 2PM and does not attend a Mass Sunday, has he committed a mortal sin if he has no good reason for not going on Sunday? It can’t depend upon whom he accepts to be an authoritative voice. How do you top the Pope?? Just here on CAF he could find conflicting answers. Is it up to his local bishop? Even that doesn’t sound right to me. What is a mortal sin in New York may not be in Houston??? Objective truth vs. subjective truth? Am I missing something here?

This is my [most recent] confusion in a nutshell! (I know - I’m full of them!!!)
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I am afraid it is not much of an answer, but it is subjective.

The commission of a mortal sin requires:

  • *]Grave matter
    *]Full knowledge
    *]Deliberate consent

    Taking them in reverse: (iii) Does the person in your hypothetical *intend *to fail in keeping the obligation to attend Mass? (ii) Has the person been led astray by an otherwise trustworthy authority? And, what has not been by any means settled in this or similar threads: (i) Is this even a grave matter? Or did he in fact satisfy the obligation Saturday at 1400? 🤷

    :twocents:
    tee
 
tee_eff_em said:
Just because you continue to deny the possibility of a doubt, does not make it cease to exist.

tee
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No. As I keep trying to explain, when the Pope himself tells us what his own law means, there is no doubt.

Any doubt ceased to exist when Pope John Paul II explained what he meant when he promulgated the code of canon law.
 
tee_eff_em said:
I am afraid it is not much of an answer, but it is subjective.

The commission of a mortal sin requires:

  • *]Grave matter
    *]Full knowledge
    *]Deliberate consent

    Taking them in reverse: (iii) Does the person in your hypothetical *intend *to fail in keeping the obligation to attend Mass? (ii) Has the person been led astray by an otherwise trustworthy authority? And, what has not been by any means settled in this or similar threads: (i) Is this even a grave matter? Or did he in fact satisfy the obligation Saturday at 1400? 🤷

    :twocents:
    tee
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  • Nice try. One can’t satisfy the Sunday obligation by attending Mass at 1400 on Saturday since liturgical Sunday has not yet begun. It’s the Sunday obligation, not the Saturday obligation.
 
LindaSK said:
I will make this brief, though I acknowledge it is repetitious. I still have not gotten a fully acceptable answer. [Mind you, I agree with Pope JP II and Fr. David that evening begins at 4 PM.]

If someone attends a Wedding Mass Saturday at 2PM and does not attend a Mass Sunday, has he committed a mortal sin if he has no good reason for not going on Sunday? It can’t depend upon whom he accepts to be an authoritative voice. How do you top the Pope?? Just here on CAF he could find conflicting answers. Is it up to his local bishop? Even that doesn’t sound right to me. What is a mortal sin in New York may not be in Houston??? Objective truth vs. subjective truth? Am I missing something here?

This is my [most recent] confusion in a nutshell! (I know - I’m full of them!!!)

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Yes. The person has committed a sin by intentionally failing to attend a Mass on Sunday or the evening before.

From the Catechism:
2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: “On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass.” “The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.”
 
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