Welfare Question?

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gam197

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The question is - is it OK to get welfare? The reason I ask to because it is something I have been debating back and forth in my mind. I tell my children they shouldn’t get welfare.Is this “PRIDE”?

… My husband is a blue collar worker and he has worked two job to support his children. We have budgeted to do the best we can for their education and they are doing fine. We have done without even basic things such as going to a dentist for ourselves and at times for our children. They used to send home letters from the school saying we qualify for certain things and I would throw them away.
 
I’m not sure if I can say whether for you it is pride or not. You will have to search your motives for that answer.
However, people occasionally need help for a short time. That is what TANF, medicaid, food stamps, and day care assistance are designed to do. Perhaps you have heard the joke about the real meaning of TANF…Temporary Aid NO FOOLIN’.
The problem is that some people look upon it as an entitlement. As if it is their right to live on monies supplied by others.
God bless your husband for working so hard. You didn’t say it but it sounds as if you are a stay at home mom? Bless you for that as well if so.
Medical and dental care is very useful especially for children. Perhaps, if you do not care to use medicaid, arrangements can be made with dental and medical providers when things need to be done.
It also sounds as if you are attempting to be careful with the funds you have by budgeting. That is the way to live freely. Debt is literally an encumbrance. Incurring it is not to be entered upon lightly.
If you must use public assistance do so with care. And carefully make plans on how to end your need of it as quickly as possible.
P.S. I was a TANF social worker for a number of years and a medicaid worker prior to that.
 
Thanks for your response!

I did stay home and could have qualified for many programs but didn’t take them and I am not sure how it affected my children. It is too late now as they are starting their own families.

Having a dentist was always a major problem. It was sparingly. My husband and I look at each other and sometimes think we were crazy to make them and ourselves do without and it often caused stress where we would 'fight".

We both were good at budgeting. I will continue to debate this in my mind.
 
Welfare is there for those who need it. I would not begrudge my taxes to pay for those who need a hand from time to time.
 
WOW! Slyboots that was probably the best answer I have ever heard on the topic! Gam197… I was too proud to accept any help after my ex walked out, even though I qualified I would not apply for benefits. Then I got laid off… still I refused to apply. After 6 months of not finding a job and my unemployment running out… I applied. My kids and I got medical and food stamps but I still wouldn’t take money. I started back to college and doing odd jobs to pay the bills. I hated going into the Public Aid building because there were 2 types of people there (at least that is how I saw it) ones that thought they were entitled and ones who looked like life done run them over! It was so depressing! Over the years, while I was single, I have had to rely on food stamps off and on…while trying to get my degree. I do think they should extend benfits for 3-6 months after a life changing event like getting a job or getting married just so you don’t go under while trying to dig yourself out of the pits so to speak.

My pride did get the best of me for a while, but it isn’t totally a bad thing. My actions taught my kids that things like this are a last resort and not a way of life.
 
Your husband is a hard worker and I assume pays his taxes. The money he makes that is taken by the government goes to pay for the very safety nets that people like you and others need when times get tough. He has earned this for your family by working, there is nothing wrong with using it when you need it, provided you don’t intend to make a career out of it, and you hardly sound like the type.

Don’t feel guilty using something your own tax dollars paid for. Think of it as a savings account that you paid into for a rainy day - well, it sounds like it could be raining now, so it’s time to dip into that account a bit. 🙂

~Liza
 
My husband worked two jobs.He would leave one and go to the other. My sister’s husband did the same.

The question I have always asked myself, did we really need it? Would it have helped? What should I tell my children if they need help?

We did lack some things but so do many others. The problem was also from community. I wished I had had the courage to home school then.

Odd comments to me were OK but I hated when people said things to on my kids. They probably meant no harm but they’d say stuff like to this to them “How do you fit so many in that house?.” We at least owned a house. They’d compare and ask my daughters " How many new outfits they got for school?" Of course, they’d always be at the bottom.

Christmas would be a happy time for my children until they went to school.

As adults, we know there are different levels within society… I am just not sure children know how to deal with this.
 
My mom was on welfare for a few years. I remeber using food stamps to buy groceries. I guess i was too young too realize the social stigma attached to welfare recipients… Ah Well
 
I agree with the other posters --there is nothing immoral about accepting assistance to help you when you are doing all you can to help yourselves. I think the greater immorality would be to fail to provide for your children’s nutritional, medical or dental needs because you were too proud to accept assistance when needed. Not only does this assistance come from funds your husband’s taxes have paid into, but Christ tells those who are able to take care of the poor, the sick, etc. If He tells some to give, that means others must necessarily receive, and I don’t recall anything indicating He believed that those who needed and accepted help were immoral.

Also, I don’t think your fellow citizens would mind assisting a family who is doing all they can to help themselves, but still struggling. My secretary was a mom of two young girls. She and her husband worked different shifts so one parent was always with the girls. Her husband sexually abused both girls and they divorced and he refused to pay any child support because the judge denied him visitation with the girls. Mom worked at a minimum wage job and decided to go back to school to earn a certificate so she could make enough money to support her family. She went on welfare while she was in school and was so ashamed of this, even years later. I thought that was so sad – she was doing the best she could under terrible circumstances, and then she felt guilty on top of that.
 
I thank God I have never had to walk in your shoes. There is certainly nothing wrong with getting a little help from ‘Uncle Sam’ when you need it. You sound like someone who would help someone else when they were down and out so you should not feel guilty about receiving help. The system shoiuld be there to help people like you and to push the 4th and 5th generation welfare recipiants into getting a job. God Bless You.
 
gam197 said:
The question is - is it OK to get welfare? The reason I ask to because it is something I have been debating back and forth in my mind. I tell my children they shouldn’t get welfare.Is this “PRIDE”?

… My husband is a blue collar worker and he has worked two job to support his children. We have budgeted to do the best we can for their education and they are doing fine. We have done without even basic things such as going to a dentist for ourselves and at times for our children. They used to send home letters from the school saying we qualify for certain things and I would throw them away.
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If you are legally entitled to aid, you should avail yourself of it. I suspect that your reluctance is PRIDE, or the feeling that receiving benefits will make you like all the other people “on welfare”.

Don’t worry about them, worry about yourself and your kids. If you can get Food Stamps or subsidised health care, won’t that take some pressure off?
 
Pride should never stand in the way of family needs. IMHO food, medical, warmth and shelter needs are things that I would beg for if I had to for my children and their families.

We work hard and have what we nedd. Many people would not live as an extended family like we do. We range from 3yo to 62yo and we did this because we thought and prayed about it. We home school, three of the adults work out side of the home and one homeschools and manages the home. For us it works and has enabled us to use the gifts God gave us wisely.
 
There is one element that is fundamental to this question I have not seen discussed. I pose this question:

If you lived in a society where soldiers, under the direction of the local government, and with threat of force (holding loaded weapons), stationed themselves in the market place and demanded a head tax from each citizen according to the amount of money they were carrying, and citizens refusing to pay, i.e. attempting to ‘protect’ their money from siezure, are shot, and the money collected is placed in a bag on the corner, to be used by other citizens who ‘need the help’, would this change your answer to the question? (sorry for the long sentence).
 
If you lived in a society where soldiers, under the direction of the local government, and with threat of force (holding loaded weapons), stationed themselves in the market place and demanded a head tax from each citizen according to the amount of money they were carrying, and citizens refusing to pay, i.e. attempting to ‘protect’ their money from siezure, are shot, and the money collected is placed in a bag on the corner, to be used by other citizens who ‘need the help’, would this change your answer to the question? (sorry for the long sentence).
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Umm, not entirely clear what you’re getting at, but I’ll take a shot. Is this a supposedly clever analogy for taxes? As in, you feel robbed by the government taking some of your money to redistribute to the needy through welfare programs?

My answer – no, it doesn’t change my answer. I do not mind providing for my brothers and sisters and their children. In fact, it is my duty and responsibility as a Christian. I do NOT like government waste, and I feel as crummy as anyone when I file my taxes and see how much we pay each year. I also despise it when people receive welfare but don’t try to do what they can for themselves. However, the question posed in this thread is from a family who is trying and still has need.

In Utopia, families such as this would be provided for by their church. In real life, parishes don’t have the ability to provide real assistance. Sure, people will help out in the short term, but not for the 2 years it took my secretary to earn a certificate at night while still working part time and raising two children.

Now, a question for you: what percentage of your income would you freely give to charity without taxes for welfare, if taxes were reduced to cover just basic government functions, such as roads, defense, etc.?
 
originally posted by didymus
suspect that your reluctance is PRIDE, or the feeling that receiving benefits will make you like all the other people “on welfare”.
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I think we did OK as a family. I was afraid of getting welfare and getting trapped in a system that I wouldn’t be able to get out of.

A lot of the difficulty came from outside the family of which I had little control.I guess that is why I like home schooling but that still places an added burden on families by not allowing any tax relief.

This question has been so difficult for me. My immediate family would have not taken welfare and they have also worked long hours. On one hand we feel proud that we didn’t have to take welfare and on another it may be pride. The next generation is dealing with the same issues.
 
I can see that many posters on this thread are American. In the United States there seems to be a stigma attached to welfare but in Europe welfare is a right and the stigma, if there is one, is less. I am grateful that in the country that I am now living in, there is still a welfare state. But mind you, it is changing.

Welfare is nothing to feel guilty over. In fact, it gives people the opportunity to be of service to their fellow human beings and as most pay into the welfare society, (as america is) or into the welfare services on offer, it gives one the availability to put Christ’s words into action. Love your Neighbor.

Don’t feel guilty…feel good that you can receive an act of love.
 
gam197 said:
I think we did OK as a family. I was afraid of getting welfare and getting trapped in a system that I wouldn’t be able to get out of.

A lot of the difficulty came from outside the family of which I had little control.I guess that is why I like home schooling but that still places an added burden on families by not allowing any tax relief.

This question has been so difficult for me. My immediate family would have not taken welfare and they have also worked long hours. On one hand we feel proud that we didn’t have to take welfare and on another it may be pride. The next generation is dealing with the same issues.
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I’m sorry if I offended accusing you of pride.
In our culture there is a wedge driven between the working poor and the “welfare poor” with the blue collars rather encouraged to look down on people on welfare and be horrified by the thought of winding up there themselves.

I don’t blame you for not wanting to get involved with the system, it stinks. When we first got married I was out of work and had to go on public assistance. Even though NY is one of the most “generous” states it wasn’t much, but it got us thru.

Even now I suppose you could say I’m “getting benefits” because I get subsudised health insurance for my son. Is that welfare? Without if one week’s pay each month would have to go for my insurance at work.

Anyway, I think you need to decide what you need w/o worrying what anyone else thinks, what previous generations would have done, &c.
One thought, other countries refer to benefits programs as “social insurance” rather than “welfare” – well, you’ve been paying your premiums (taxes) for years and it sounds like you need your insurance now.
 
We must remember that when Christ fed the multitude that came to hear him, he gave them welfare in the form of bread. And I might add that during his lifetime Judea/Isreal was a very stratified society where 95 percent of the people were poor. (Obery Hendricks, in the Politics of Jesus, 2006) By given this multitude the bread to ease their hunger, Christ showed an act of caring and charity to the people who would listen to him. Better minds have full stomacks to hear.
 
dwc said:
Umm, not entirely clear what you’re getting at, but I’ll take a shot. Is this a supposedly clever analogy for taxes? As in, you feel robbed by the government taking some of your money to redistribute to the needy through welfare programs?

My answer – no, it doesn’t change my answer. I do not mind providing for my brothers and sisters and their children. In fact, it is my duty and responsibility as a Christian. I do NOT like government waste, and I feel as crummy as anyone when I file my taxes and see how much we pay each year. I also despise it when people receive welfare but don’t try to do what they can for themselves. However, the question posed in this thread is from a family who is trying and still has need.

In Utopia, families such as this would be provided for by their church. In real life, parishes don’t have the ability to provide real assistance. Sure, people will help out in the short term, but not for the 2 years it took my secretary to earn a certificate at night while still working part time and raising two children.

Now, a question for you: what percentage of your income would you freely give to charity without taxes for welfare, if taxes were reduced to cover just basic government functions, such as roads, defense, etc.?
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DWC,

First, an answer to your question. Truly at least 10%. I am confident in this response because my tax deductible charitable contributions over the past 37 years (since I started receiving an allowance) has been 10% of my gross income before taxes. You may be asking if it would increase if the government got out of charity (welfare). My answer is yes, if the true personal need was there and I was personally asked. I have never turned down a personal request for help when the requestor asked for (and was willing to accept) something they truly needed. I’ve been asked many times for something they supposedly need (food, water, etc.), but when I have offered these, almost all times I got, “Well, what i really need is money…”. Giving money directly to the poor is irresponsible behavior. Christ told us to give many things directly to the poor, and money was not one of them. Clothes, shelter, food, water, etc., but never money. And its not because money was not available or plentiful back then, it was. His reference to giving money was alms, but that went to the temple, to be distibuted responsibly in the form of what the poor really needed.

Some random thoughts concerning charity from the world that Dan lives in:
  1. Christ’s message was always that charity was a person’s responsibility, not the government’s. He had ample opportunity to hold Ceaser accountable, with the vast resources available to him, for the care of the poor, and he did not once suggest it. He did many times hold US accountable. Those who suggest the government should take care of the poor are sorely missing Christ’s message, in reality saying, “It’s someone else’s responsiblity”.
  2. Persons do not receive the grace of giving, if free will is not involved. Giving is inherently the GIVING of a GIFT. A gift can only be given freely. Taxes are not freely given, they aren’t gifts and can never be, unless you fill out the line on your income taxes where you FREELY agree to send more than you owe. If taxes were freely given, they could be freely withheld. Try withholding your taxes and see what happens. People (e.g. the sheriff) come to take away your possessions, and if you attempt to protect your possessions, they come with deadly force. It may come as bad news, but you cannot receive the grace your charity should bring to you simply by paying mandatory taxes. You have to give FREELY.
  3. Government’s responsiblity is to protect its citizens, first by protecting the REAL individual rights as granted by God (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but not food, water, health care, cable TV and cigarettes), and secondly providing for the common good. To the extent that these two aims are met, providing welfare is not inherently wrong. What can be wrong is the manner in which it is administered.
Dan
 
gam197 said:
The question is - is it OK to get welfare? The reason I ask to because it is something I have been debating back and forth in my mind. I tell my children they shouldn’t get welfare.Is this “PRIDE”?

… My husband is a blue collar worker and he has worked two job to support his children. We have budgeted to do the best we can for their education and they are doing fine. We have done without even basic things such as going to a dentist for ourselves and at times for our children. They used to send home letters from the school saying we qualify for certain things and I would throw them away.
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Here is my view on the matter.

Accepting welfare is moral if the following conditions are met:
  1. An individual must be working diligently to provide for their own welfare and those that they are responsible for. This means diligently attempting to earn the best wages possible through responsible and consistent work, budgeting and not spending money on things like cable TV, cigarettes, alcohol, cars other than basic tranportation, ‘premium’ foods, etc. Essentially maximizing the income, and spending only on necessities.
  2. What is accepted are necessities, or is spent on necessities. Many make the error of taking welfare for necessities and then spending it, (or there own money) on non-necessities (cable TV, cigarettes, alcohol, luxury cars, fine steaks, eating out, etc.) And of course, anything offered that is not needed for necessities must be returned.
  3. That full and forthright honesty is used during the process of requesting, or accepting, the assistance. Not telling the administrator about help you are getting from Mom and Dad would be lying, and push you onto immoral ground.
Teaching these principles to your children are important too. My praise to you for teaching your children that they are ulitmately accountable for themselves.

Dan
 
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