=guanophore;13428966]This may be my biggest hangup with the Lutheran doctrine. If a truly holy man is occupying an anti-Christ office then how can he really be a Christian?
First, because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The belief is that the teachings listed are opposed to the teachings found in scripture and the early councils.
That said, as you know, my friend, I don’t like the language. It doesn’t fit the modern relationship between our communions, or the modern usage the term by other groups.
How is it that Jesus has failed in His promise to guide the Pope into all truth? Why has He been so weak and disinterested in all this time that he has not convinced the Popes they are in the wrong to occupy their office? We have been blessed by very holy men occupying this office for a century. They pray all day, and devote their lives to Him in service. How can He let them be so deaf?
May I respectfully offer that in the 11th century, patriarchs equal to the Bishop of Rome complained, and 500 years later, so did the Evangelical Catholics. Now I’m not saying that either speaks for God, but the consideration must be there that the Bishop of Rome knew of the complaints about the teachings involved, and the reasons for those complaints.
Aside from its incredible work in helping those who need help, the leadership of the popes of the recent era in areas of morals and the faith is the most important of any in our time. Thank God for these wonderful men.
This is one distinction you have taught me, JonNC. But Luther certainly seems to believe his pope was, and I can find a great many points of agreement with him on that.
And yet, even the popes of that time were not
THE ANTICHRIST, as the dispensationalists describe it.
Pope Boniface, in Unam Sanctam, makes a definitive statement. Della rightfully corrects the way I describe Catholic thinking on the matter, but if I take the clear sense of his words, one can see how we in the modern age ought to be able to say, “we accept your explanation today.”
Why has the powerful Jesus we see in Revelation, able to step forward and corret/redirect His Church, been so weak and disinterested that He has not corrected this opposition?
Isn’t this a question which comes from perspective? I would contend that we are seeing in this time the slow, but steady improvement in relations between our communions, such that it seems to be possible that we can come to convergence on exactly what the leadership role of the Bishop of Rome is. I think it was Pope Benedict that pondered this question regarding the Orthodox. Are we not seeing the influence of the Spirit even today?
This is, unfortunately, a common misunderstanding of the doctrine of EENS. All who are in Christ will be saved. Not all who are in Christ are visible members of those in cummunion with the successor of Peter.
And I have heard wonderful Catholics such as you explain this. Don and I have explained the understanding or the charge against the office of the Papacy. As I said to my friend Pablope, modern explanations do not make the charges and condemnations benign. Instead, they remind us of the wounds our division cause His Church, and the need to continue to prayerfully seek reconciliation with, and forgiveness from each other.
Jon
