We're Bush, Obama & Trump placed by God?

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Romans 13:1 says: Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. (RSV-CE)

I have had the fortuitousness of living through several Presidencies. In adulthood during the G.W. Bush years I had the opportunity to be in a graduate school with a lot of Christians of all genders, ethnicities and Christian denominations. The school I attended was of the Liberation theology / Marxist ideology.

It was my first conscious experience of Marxist ideology within the Christian community and pretty much floored me. Seeing the level of commitment to the ideology, hatred of anything not actively in support of it, and regular adherence to what I now know as Marxist principles implemented by Alinsky’s rules, I came to see that it is an atheistic belief system which runs counter to mainstream Christian thought and practice.

As can be seen by the actions of the Administration the last 8 years, there is a danger to the Christian Church as well as our political system. Unfortunately they have convinced many Christians that Christian social beliefs are best implemented through government (a derivation of Alinsky rule #4) rather than the Christian Community, all the while working to destroy Christians who won’t submit to their immoral laws.

For those who believe Christian social ideas are best implemented by government, the government is using you to strengthen themselves and ultimately, as they have shown will use the power to persecute the Church. That Christians support this, often vehemently, is sad witness to their formation and sad commentary on those who formed them.

What I experienced in school through the first decade of the new century is now mainstream political discourse. We see the same level of vitriol and hatred towards the Christian Faith and anything deemed conservative by those on the left. So often it is not about the presenting issue (as is shown by the left’s inability to relate policies they hate, just hate “him” and what he stands for…), but about hating an ideology different from theirs. One which is God centered rather than humanistic in nature.

While in the minority in the world, I and those who hold similar views are called by Christ to just speak the truth of the Gospel to the world. We are fighting a determined enemy who is a great salesman and has the ear of many inside and outside the Church. Our enemy and his adherents are not strong, in fact most are cowards which is why they pack up on opponents. But they are determined.

As Romans states, all leaders are placed or allowed by God. For Christians and conservatives who think Donald Trumps election is the victory, don’t be in denial. You can see the opponents of the faith and individual freedom have redoubled their efforts since the election and will continue that course. These next four years are but a breather in the war. Hopefully some of the damage which has been done, such as active governmental persecution, can be temporarily reversed, but the opponent will not go away.

This is the time to strengthen yourselves, your family and close community. Learn the faith. Learn the Scripture. Practice a personal life of prayer and self reflection. And work to help others do the same. The future for the Christian in the West is on a bumpy course. Our opponents will have many victories and many Christians will fall from the faith in the next few decades. By your baptism and confirmation, you are full members of God’s household and FULLY AUTHORIZED to bring the good news to those in your life. The soul’s saved will be accounted to your credit.

For those working for the freedom Christ promises I will continue to pray for your strengthening and perseverance in the face of increasing evil around us. For those who are opponents, I will pray for the veil to be lifted and your safety until circumstances to turn to Christ have been manifest in your life.

et ora pro nobis ad invicem
(Let us pray for each other)
 
I never saw where the Bushes were anti Christian. Maybe not avid Church goers, but I can’t remember when they ever spoke out against Christianity. Correct me if I am wrong. Peace.
 
All authority is given from above. Even Hitler was.

Doubt it? Listen to what Jesus said to Pontius Pilate.

Look at the history of the Jews. Sometimes they had great kings, like King David. Other times, it was not so.

As for Trump, what I find impressive is that he was supposed to loose. Hillary had it in the bag. Then Trump came in from nowhere and boom.

Then think of this. Trump recently opened a rally with the Our Father.

Few days latter, witches decided to cast a spell on him. We know that Wiccans do not worship God. SO they must worship the opposite.

Those are just things I ponder.

Edit: I forgot to add, yes I also believe Bush and Obama where given authority from above.
 
I never saw where the Bushes were anti Christian. Maybe not avid Church goers, but I can’t remember when they ever spoke out against Christianity. Correct me if I am wrong. Peace.
I don’t think he was anti-Christian, though a lot of liberals I knew thought he was. He did have the “faith based initiatives” which tried to get government “partnering” with churches. Many saw that once you take government money, you are beholden to their rules. I spoke to pastors who had food programs and kitchens who wouldn’t share the Gospel with people there because they took government money.
 
All authority is given from above. Even Hitler was.

Doubt it? Listen to what Jesus said to Pontius Pilate.

Look at the history of the Jews. Sometimes they had great kings, like King David. Other times, it was not so.

As for Trump, what I find impressive is that he was supposed to loose. Hillary had it in the bag. Then Trump came in from nowhere and boom.

Then think of this. Trump recently opened a rally with the Our Father.

Few days latter, witches decided to cast a spell on him. We know that Wiccans do not worship God. SO they must worship the opposite.

Those are just things I ponder.

Edit: I forgot to add, yes I also believe Bush and Obama where given authority from above.
It was following GW’s second election that I heard a lot of inner city pastors using the opening quote from Roman’s as a way to ameliorate the pain of a Republican winning.

I also know a lot of people who said “we don’t get the government we want, but the one we deserve” both times this last Administration was elected.
 
I never saw where the Bushes were anti Christian. Maybe not avid Church goers, but I can’t remember when they ever spoke out against Christianity. Correct me if I am wrong. Peace.
I can’t recall where I read it but I do specifically remember reading that GW Bush prayed daily.
 
Romans 13:1 says: Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. (RSV-CE)
I would agree with Paul since governing authorities promote lawfulness, peace, and prosperity, at least in principle, and most of the time in fact.
 
I would agree with Paul since governing authorities promote lawfulness, peace, and prosperity, at least in principle, and most of the time in fact.
IDk, this is one of those verse that tend to benefit a secular authority a little too much imo, kind of like the ‘give unto Caesar what is Caesars’ verse.

Jesus warns us living a christian will be tough, we will be hated and persecuted at some point, if this is true, how would it reach this point if we are to just submit and obey?
 
I think history has adequately demonstrated God has gifted Tribes, Empires and Nations with certain Leaders; or sometimes allowed certain Leaders.
 
Romans 13:1 says: Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. (RSV-CE)

I have had the fortuitousness of living through several Presidencies. In adulthood during the G.W. Bush years I had the opportunity to be in a graduate school with a lot of Christians of all genders, ethnicities and Christian denominations. The school I attended was of the Liberation theology / Marxist ideology.

It was my first conscious experience of Marxist ideology within the Christian community and pretty much floored me. Seeing the level of commitment to the ideology, hatred of anything not actively in support of it, and regular adherence to what I now know as Marxist principles implemented by Alinsky’s rules, I came to see that it is an atheistic belief system which runs counter to mainstream Christian thought and practice.

As can be seen by the actions of the Administration the last 8 years, there is a danger to the Christian Church as well as our political system. Unfortunately they have convinced many Christians that Christian social beliefs are best implemented through government (a derivation of Alinsky rule #4) rather than the Christian Community, all the while working to destroy Christians who won’t submit to their immoral laws.

For those who believe Christian social ideas are best implemented by government, the government is using you to strengthen themselves and ultimately, as they have shown will use the power to persecute the Church. That Christians support this, often vehemently, is sad witness to their formation and sad commentary on those who formed them.

What I experienced in school through the first decade of the new century is now mainstream political discourse. We see the same level of vitriol and hatred towards the Christian Faith and anything deemed conservative by those on the left. So often it is not about the presenting issue (as is shown by the left’s inability to relate policies they hate, just hate “him” and what he stands for…), but about hating an ideology different from theirs. One which is God centered rather than humanistic in nature.

While in the minority in the world, I and those who hold similar views are called by Christ to just speak the truth of the Gospel to the world. We are fighting a determined enemy who is a great salesman and has the ear of many inside and outside the Church. Our enemy and his adherents are not strong, in fact most are cowards which is why they pack up on opponents. But they are determined.

As Romans states, all leaders are placed or allowed by God. For Christians and conservatives who think Donald Trumps election is the victory, don’t be in denial. You can see the opponents of the faith and individual freedom have redoubled their efforts since the election and will continue that course. These next four years are but a breather in the war. Hopefully some of the damage which has been done, such as active governmental persecution, can be temporarily reversed, but the opponent will not go away.

This is the time to strengthen yourselves, your family and close community. Learn the faith. Learn the Scripture. Practice a personal life of prayer and self reflection. And work to help others do the same. The future for the Christian in the West is on a bumpy course. Our opponents will have many victories and many Christians will fall from the faith in the next few decades. By your baptism and confirmation, you are full members of God’s household and FULLY AUTHORIZED to bring the good news to those in your life. The soul’s saved will be accounted to your credit.

For those working for the freedom Christ promises I will continue to pray for your strengthening and perseverance in the face of increasing evil around us. For those who are opponents, I will pray for the veil to be lifted and your safety until circumstances to turn to Christ have been manifest in your life.

et ora pro nobis ad invicem
(Let us pray for each other)
The governing auth0orities…

Perhaps one can argue that in the U.S. the governing authorities should be thought of as not individuals but as the Constitution. After all the Constitution is where the authority for the U.S. government and all office holders comes from. The allegiance all of us take is not to an individual, but to support the Constitution, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

In other times and places, the old days of Caesars and kings and queens, oaths were taken to support and obey a particular person. But not in this country, the U.S. We take oaths to support the Constitution, not divine right monarchs, so if we feel an office holder or law is acting against the Constitution are we maybe even beholden to oppose such person or law? Quite a different idea from the notion of divine right monarchs.

At any rate, the Bible says, Put not your trust in princes. And it was Jesus who said that the purpose of Caesar was to keep order and punish wrongdoers.

So, should we shirk our Christian social duties and pass them along to Caesar and let him do it all? It is very tempting and easy. But then in that case Caesar increases and Church decreases. Caesar, that is government, takes the place of God and Church, as he has always wanted to do.
 
Then think of this. Trump recently opened a rally with the Our Father.

Few days latter, witches decided to cast a spell on him. We know that Wiccans do not worship God. SO they must worship the opposite.
Wow… just wow…
 
God directly or indirectly guides the world according to his plans. It doesn’t mean he supports evil actions, but he has a reason for allowing a president to be elected. There must be some end good that a particular election is part of. In the short term things are maybe bad, but will somehow result in good later. Maybe that will be 100 years later, 1000 years later, even millions of years later. God’s plans are so beyond our understanding we won’t know how something fits in. Directly, God can put everything into place for a particular person to be elected. He can also let people take their own actions, possibly allowing an evil person to be elected.
 
God allows men’s freewill in all things and the elections are no different…but I pray, for what they’re worth from a sinner, that Trump be a useful instrument for The Almighty in global matters that may not be obvious to some perspectives!

GO TRUMP!

:cool:
 
It was following GW’s second election that I heard a lot of inner city pastors using the opening quote from Roman’s as a way to ameliorate the pain of a Republican winning.

I also know a lot of people who said “we don’t get the government we want, but the one we deserve” both times this last Administration was elected.
Well, those inner city pastors were willing to acknowledge the legitimacy of Bush, and conservatives should acknowledge the legitimacy of Obama.
I have had the fortuitousness of living through several Presidencies. In adulthood during the G.W. Bush years I had the opportunity to be in a graduate school with a lot of Christians of all genders, ethnicities and Christian denominations. The school I attended was of the Liberation theology / Marxist ideology.
It was my first conscious experience of Marxist ideology within the Christian community and pretty much floored me. Seeing the level of commitment to the ideology, hatred of anything not actively in support of it, and regular adherence to what I now know as Marxist principles implemented by Alinsky’s rules, I came to see that it is an atheistic belief system which runs counter to mainstream Christian thought and practice.
Very few people are actually Marxists and I doubt that those people were Marxists, unless you could provide evidence that they do not subscribe to liberal democracy or believe in the abolition of the private ownership of the means of predication.

Leftists certainly do not have a monopoly of hate. The Chilean coup and the torturers certainly had a hatred of those detained, tortured, and murdered. You cannot say that leftists in the US have done anything of similar magnitude or harbor similar hatreds.

Pinochet was an ultra-traditionalist conservative Catholic. You cannot say that only leftist Catholics are filled with malicious hatred.

And no, unlike Trump or Obama or George W. Bush. He wasn’t elected. But Bush and Pinochet (and probably Obama) were also have at least some responsibility for torturing people who didn’t elect them.
 
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