Were Mary and Joseph Married?

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Caren676 said:
If Joseph was Mary’s husband and righteous man then why he was feeling trouble to expose Mary to shame when she was her wife and he was her husband? Why he decided to divorce her quietly?

If you are married to a girl legally accroding to Jewish custom and then if she gives birth to your baby after you are married, would you like to diverce her quietly simply because she gave birth to your child?

Was Joseph really married to her or betrothed up until Jesus’ birth?
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Why do we need to speculate when Scripture clearly states he was married to Mary prior to Jeus’s birth.
 
Caren676 said:
If Joseph was Mary’s husband and righteous man then why he was feeling trouble to expose Mary to shame when she was her wife and he was her husband? Why he decided to divorce her quietly?
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Because he knew that the Child wasn’t his, but he didn’t yet know that the Child she was carrying was conceived by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit and thus was God Incarnate. The angel Gabriel was sent to calm his concerns, thus to assure that the Child and Mother would have an earthly father and husband to protect them.
If you are married to a girl legally accroding to Jewish custom and then if she gives birth to your baby after you are married, would you like to diverce her quietly simply because she gave birth to your child?
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Ah, but St. Joseph wasn’t the father; God, the Father, was/is. 🙂
Was Joseph really married to her or betrothed up until Jesus’ birth?
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Really married, before and after.
 
estesbob said:
You asked if Joseph was married to Mary when Jesus was born. You yourself have quoted scripture where it says when Joseph found out she was Pregnant he was going to divorce her. If they werent married why woud he have to divoprce her.
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He wanted to divorce her because he was not married to her but betrothed.
I dont think there is any record of Mary running around trying to convince anyone (except Joseph) thaty she was a Virgin. Why would it matter?
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Lack of record (in Bible) doesn’t mean everything was alright and people accepted Jesus’ miraculous birth. How did she prove to the people that baby Jesus was born without a human father because Joseph was not married to her but betrothed and they did not live together?
 
Caren676 said:
He wanted to divorce her because he was not married to her but betrothed.
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There is no need to get a divorce if one is merely bethothed. You can try and spin it any way you want but Scriputre is quite clear that they were married when jesus was born.
Lack of record (in Bible) doesn’t mean everything was alright and people accepted Jesus’ miraculous birth. How did she prove to the people that baby Jesus was born without a human father because Joseph was not married to her but betrothed and they did not live together?
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She didnt have to prove anyhting becuase she was married to Joseph and they were living together. How often do you walk up to married people and ask them if the husband really fathered their child or was it the Holy Spirit intead?
 
I sincerely hope so, else there is iminent risk that the Catholic Church may declare their union ‘null and void’.

Actually, I do not know, but the enlightened tradition of Authodoxy is that they were not. That sounds most plausible too.

Mary we know was a consecrated Virgin.

It was custom and practice for young virginsconsecrated to the temple, to come under the protectorate of an older [usually widowed] man whose reputation and holiness was beyond dispute. Such a man would also probably have a grown up family.

He would be given loco parentis responsibility to make sure nothing defiled the virgin and that she came to no harm.

Joseph fits this scenario nicely. Jesus we know had brothers since these are mentioned in the bible,though to be fair, in Aramaic cousins are also brothers. But don’t you think it is plausible that Jesus brothers could actually be His step brothers. That is the children of Joseph?

It is likely that Mary remained a consecrated virgin all of her life.

I like the idea. But, I cannot help smiling that if that was the case, poor old Joe, when he found out the child in his protection was pregnant. He must have been terrified the Temple officials would assume the child was his and that he had defiled a virgin [a very serious crime]. That would explain why the Angel told him ‘not to be afraid, as the child was fathered by Almighty God’

Can’t you imagine him saying to the angel: ‘Yeh, do you think the temple officials are going to believe that one’? It does for me bring home the humanity of the situation of the Holy Family.

Mary is God the Fathers’ daughter in law! 👍

‘Hail Mary full of grace’.
 
estesbob said:
She didnt have to prove anyhting becuase she was married to Joseph and they were living together.
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No. They were not living together. Read the following verse carefully:

** Matthew 1: 18
6 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, 7 but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit.**
Betrothal was the first part of the marriage, constituting a man and woman as husband and wife. Subsequent infidelity was considered adultery. The betrothal was followed some months later by the husband’s taking his wife into his home, at which time normal married life began
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.

If Joseph was a righteous man then how he could have lived with Mary before Marriage to give rise the objection/doubt of having pre-marital sex with Mary? The situation of those days was not like liberal situation of today’s West where pre-marital sex or sex with girl friends and even with same sex (man with man and woman with woman) is kosher.

So either you misunderstood Bible or you haven’t read the whole Bible.
 
Caren676 said:
No. They were not living together. Read the following verse carefully:

**Matthew 1: 18 **
6 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, 7 but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit.

.

If Joseph was a righteous man then how he could have lived with Mary before Marriage to give rise the objection/doubt of having pre-marital sex with Mary? The situation of those days was not like liberal situation of today’s West where pre-marital sex or sex with girl friends and even with same sex (man with man and woman with woman) is kosher.

So either you misunderstood Bible or you haven’t read the whole Bible.
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By the whole Bible do you mean I havent read the Quaran. Scripture could not be clearer that they were married and thus Josephs original desire for a divorce. Perhaps he should have turned her over to the local iman for 120 lashes instead?
 
This was discussed in this thread.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=108194
Footnotes from The New American Bible
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Quote:
Betrothed to Joseph: betrothal was the first part of the marriage, constituting a man and woman as husband and wife. Subsequent infidelity was considered adultery. The betrothal was followed some months later by the husband’s taking his wife into his home, at which time normal married life began.
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Mathew 1:20
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Quote:
Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the Holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her.
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Joseph married Mary before the Angel came to her announcing the birth of Jesus. Betrothal was the frist part of the marriage followed by a year for the woman to prepare to enter her husbands house.
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So when the Angel appeared to Mary they were already married but in the betrothal part of marriage that is the time before she went to live with Joseph.
 
Caren676 said:
If Joseph was Mary’s husband and righteous man then why he was feeling trouble to expose Mary to shame when she was her wife and he was her husband? Why he decided to divorce her quietly?

If you are married to a girl legally accroding to Jewish custom and then if she gives birth to your baby after you are married, would you like to diverce her quietly simply because she gave birth to your child?

Was Joseph really married to her or betrothed up until Jesus’ birth?
Click to expand...
I doubt this will convince Caren or Rational of anything, as their questions seems really strange to me…

However, I read in a magazine (Catholic Answers, I think) that according to some early Church Fathers the reason Joseph was considering to “divorce Mary and send her away quietly” was not because he did not believe that God was the Father of the child, or that he had doubts about Mary’s virtue, but rather being a righteous man he knew of his own unworthiness to be the guardian of Mary and the child. The angel coming to him in the dream dissipated his fears about himself, and so he was able to take on the responsibility of raising God’s son.

I can’t remember which Early Church Father wrote this, and I don’t have time to try to look it up right now, but when I read it I thought it an interesting interpretation of that passage of the bible, and it opened up an avenue of meditation on the holiness of Joseph.

I thank God for His goodness in giving us St. Joseph as Patron of the Church!:bowdown:
 
Question?

When did the jews start the position of Temple-Virgin?
 
To our beloved CAF resident troll,

You may want to vary your nicknames a bit more in the future. The random 3-number thing at the end of each one is getting just a little* too* predictable. 😉
 
Caren676 said:
No. They were not living together.
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Caren676,
You are an idiot. Can’t you understand a simple timeline?
  1. Mary and Joseph are betrothed. That is as binding a contract as marriage, but the couple does not live together while betrothed.
  2. Mary is found to be “with child of the Holy Spirit”. At this point Joseph does not know that Mary’s child is the Son of God. Being a really nice guy, he decides to “put her away privately” so as not to expose the young girl to shame.
  3. The angel appears to Joseph in a dream, explains the situation and tells him to go ahead and take Mary as his wife.
  4. Joseph obeys the angel and takes Mary into his home as his wife. When Jesus is born, everyone assumes that Joseph is the father because they were married when Jesus was born.
Why is that so hard for you muslims to understand? I think you should take a break. Go shoot your machine gun into the sky for a while…you’ll feel better.

Paul
 
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