Were the apostles ever recorded as being baptized?

[rcwitness]

John 3: 22-30

The very next chapter clarifies that Jesus Himself actually didnt Baptize.

Im not claiming its an all inclusive comment, but definitely makes it impossible to assume He ever did water Baptize anybody.

Acts 8: 14-17 shows the laying on of hands - Confirmation.

Not talking about Confirmation.

 

[TheOldColonel]

I think those records were misplaced by the parish secretary. She’s since been fired.

 

[BlackFriar]

You do not seem to understand.
John is fairly clearly using Jn 4:2 to correct the ambiguities of Jn 3:2.

Do you know any languages other than English?
If you do then you will be aware that other cultures and languages all have all manner of literary devices and mannerisms operating in the text - some of which may not make sense in other cultures but is perfectly logical in their own.
This is one of them.

That is. by use of the 3rd person singular one can represent what is in fact done by one’s community/school. It does not mean the representative actually did the action himself.

Which is why Jn 4:2 and Jn 3:22 are not a logical contradiction.
If you were correct then you are the first person in 2000 years to notice a straight out lie in the Bible. I don’t think so.
Which is how Jn can say that Jesus

Sure, it does not mean Jesus never baptised.
But it is a perfectly acceptable position to hold.

 

[BlackFriar]

You are too lenient.
She actually falsified the records attempting to demonstrate that baptism was always an optional practise in the Early Church (not all Jesus’s apostles came from JB) with far less meaning than we accord it today. Only after Christian were ejected from Judaism did its importance as THE entry into Christianity (with the HS) become entrenched.

Addendum:
Maybe that is why we have this peculiar split between John’s baptism (cleansing from sin but not the giving of the Spirit) and this adult receiving of the HS (later to become Confirmation which we are told was originally given together with Baptism in the Early Church).
In fact it seems likely that what we now call Confirmation was originally THE way that Jews with only the baptism of John became Christians before Christians were ejected from Judaism.

A small religion (the Mandaeans) in the Middle East still exists today which traces its roots back to John the Baptist. It represents those followers of JB who did not want to become Christians (and also were ejected from Judaism). Curiously their blood is indeed largely Semitic and they speak a dialect of Aramaic. They detest circumcision and build their beliefs around baptism with water. Churches must be built near a river. The homes of the wealthy are also built near rivers.

I once had a Mandaean friend (from Iraq) at work. He wore a strange figure of a little man around his neck when he first started. I was curious and asked him who the figure was. He said it was John the Baptist. I immediately remembered my Scripture Professor 20 years earlier, as an aside, telling us about the discovery of this curious sect in the 1800s. I asked him if he was a Mandaean. He was amazed I had heard of them.

 

[TheOldColonel]

I knew I should have called her references.

 

[boldlygo]

Yet John the Baptist is overjoyed with Jesus’ action…

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

That is an interesting sect. I just perused their wiki page. I’d never heard of them.

 

[BlackFriar]

Or that which he commanded his disciples to do methinks?

 

[BlackFriar]

Of course not.
It calls into question the neat tidy history that Acts and Church historians have passed to us.
But then victors always write the history don’t they

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

Well from what I gathered they probably don’t really trace all the way back to John the Baptist. More likely they’re just another heretical sect that came later. Very gnostic/dualist in their beliefs and apparently hold Abraham and Moses as false prophets. Makes sense they’re not talked about much.

 

[BlackFriar]

But of course many have to come to this “must be so” conclusion to protect long investment in thinking otherwise.

I on the otherhand have had lengthy discussions with an actual Mandaean who, not so strangely, is not limited by Christian no-go zones in self-serving texts of culturally Christian authors.

hold Abraham and Moses as false prophets.

Yes they rejected Judaism of Jesus’s time (and so were likely kicked out of Judaism as were Christians) - I mentioned their hatred of circumcision instituted by Abraham. They claim Noah for their patriarch and follow the Noadic Covenant and law not that of Moses and the Mosaic Law.

Isn’t it interesting that Christian Jews very early on also began rejecting circumcision? Was that due to the former Baptist disciples of Jesus…especially when Gentiles started coming in to their ranks?

 

[BartholomewB]

John 3:22 & 4:1-2:

After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing. … Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself was not baptizing, just his disciples), …

If Jesus’ disciples were baptizing at this early stage of his ministry, and he was present with them, I think it is implicit that he had already baptized them himself.

John, CHAPTER 4

Daily Bible Readings, Podcast Audio and Videos and Prayers brought to you by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

bible.usccb.org

 

[BlackFriar]

John 3:22 & 4:1-2:

After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing. … Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself was not baptizing, just his disciples), …

If Jesus’ disciples were baptizing at this early stage of his ministry, and he was present with them, I think it is implicit that he had already baptized them himself.

http://www.usccb.org/bible/jn/4:1#51004001

In Asian “discipleship” culture it is very common for the disciples to do all the lesser tasks leaving their Master free to concentrate on the most skilled tasks such as contemplating, teaching and speaking with dignitaries and new comers alike.

 

[dochawk]

I think those records were misplaced by the parish secretary. She’s since been fired.

Nah, now you’ve pushed past believability.

The church secretary never gets fired. She calls the bishop’s secretary, and the priest is transferred . . .

hawk