What are Catholic's Works?

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I am in a Bible Study with a group of Baptists. In Ephesians 2: 8-10 (you have been saved thru faith, it is not from works).

Their fundamental belief is that if you accept Jesus as your personal savior, you will go to heaven.

They indicate to me that the Catholic Church has Sacraments to follow. That is, I must go to confession to remove my mortal sins else I won’t go to Heaven. We aslo have Catechism or Catholic Tradition to follow, etc. These are what they view as my works?

How do we interpret his Scripture? How can I respond to these Baptists?
 
That’s an easy one…James 2:26 “For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead”

Read James chapter2 verses 14-26 to get the context.
 
First off, nowhere in the Bible does it say that if you “accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour” that you will go to heaven.

Second, it does say in many areas that we are to keep the commandments if we wish to enter heaven, and that faith without works is dead, and that we are saved by works and not by faith alone.

Third, I recommend that you look through this website scripturecatholic.com/

🙂
 
I’ve also discussed with them that the “Faith without Works is Dead”.

Their description is that if someone SAYS they have faith, but don’t back it up with anything (and they have a wide classification of what anything means) , then the person who dais that really doesn’t have faith.

But I believe the Baptists in our group are pointing to our Sacraments. I guess my question is, Is it the Sacraments and everything else that we must obey, our WORKS?
 
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Schmitty:
But I believe the Baptists in our group are pointing to our Sacraments. I guess my question is, Is it the Sacraments and everything else that we must obey, our WORKS?
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I don’t think that these count so much as our works as the way we practice our faith. If you want to get technical they are works. We can associate the word “works” with verbs, verbs being actions, actions being works. But, Jesus said “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me” (*Mt *16:24), as well as many other things concerning works.

The Good Works of the Christian are understood to be things such as charity.

Fundimentalists like to quote Ephesians 8 & 9, but they leave something out. The Catholic Church teaches the whole quote from Ephesians, not just verses 8 & 9, but include verse 10 as well.
Ephesians 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so no one may boast. 10 For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.
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God has plans for us. The Good Works that we carry out He already has in mind. When we receive His grace, we should live in them.We cannot earn entry into heaven through our own works. They are a manifestation of His grace.

Subrosa
 
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Schmitty:
But I believe the Baptists in our group are pointing to our Sacraments. I guess my question is, Is it the Sacraments and everything else that we must obey, our WORKS?
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I think of the Sacraments as being the works of JESUS, not ours. I may present myself in the confessional and confess my sins, but it is JESUS who forgives me. I may step forward to recieve Communion, but it is JESUS who gives Himself to me. I may bring my baby forth for baptism, but it is GOD who pours forth grace. GOD WORKS through the Sacraments of the Catholic Church; we merely cooperate with Him. In fact, ANY good works that we do is really only done by cooperating with God and His grace.
 
I used to be a Southern Baptist preacher so I know where they are coming from. They believe in faith alone, and that is all you need to be heaven bound, and there is no losing it, so they say. And they consider any type of sacrament as being considered either no more than a symbolic gesture that has no effect upon our ‘salvation.’ They would consider something such as baptism to be ‘works’ if we believe that it effects our salvation. Many fundementalists that believe in the so-called ‘faith alone’ doctrine but insist that if someone has faith plus believes in anything else such as baptism as being essential to your salvation, then they would say that you are not saved because you don’t believe in faith alone but believe in a works salvation. But that seems to me to be hipocritical because that system they seem to believe turns into a faith plus correct doctrine, which in turn would not be faith alone.

Anyway, the sacraments are not actually our works but it is something we receive. I am not the one who baptized unto my salvation, but I received baptism. Plus, we are saved by grace alone, and faith happens to be an instrument to receive that saving grace, along with the sacraments.

So, as a Catholic, I would personally not attend their Bible studies but I would attend a Bible study with like minded believers.

If you really want to throw them a curve ball then show them about how the earliest Christians were Catholic by using the Early Church Fathers. Ask them where the ancient Baptist writers of the 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th th 8th 9th 10th 11th 12th 13th 14th 15th centuries? The answer is that there are none! They were Catholic!
 
Thanks for everyone’s answers. This may seem wierd, but the Baptist Bible Study has energized me more than I can believe. It challenges me to find out what EXACTLY I believe as a Catholic. But I am careful. When they discussed the Rapture, I excused myself until such time as they were finished with that discussion.
 
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copland:
I used to be a Southern Baptist preacher so I know where they are coming from. They believe in faith alone, and that is all you need to be heaven bound, and there is no losing it, so they say. And they consider any type of sacrament as being considered either no more than a symbolic gesture that has no effect upon our ‘salvation.’ They would consider something such as baptism to be ‘works’ if we believe that it effects our salvation. Many fundementalists that believe in the so-called ‘faith alone’ doctrine but insist that if someone has faith plus believes in anything else such as baptism as being essential to your salvation, then they would say that you are not saved because you don’t believe in faith alone but believe in a works salvation. But that seems to me to be hipocritical because that system they seem to believe turns into a faith plus correct doctrine, which in turn would not be faith alone.

Anyway, the sacraments are not actually our works but it is something we receive. I am not the one who baptized unto my salvation, but I received baptism. Plus, we are saved by grace alone, and faith happens to be an instrument to receive that saving grace, along with the sacraments.

So, as a Catholic, I would personally not attend their Bible studies but I would attend a Bible study with like minded believers.

If you really want to throw them a curve ball then show them about how the earliest Christians were Catholic by using the Early Church Fathers. Ask them where the ancient Baptist writers of the 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th th 8th 9th 10th 11th 12th 13th 14th 15th centuries? The answer is that there are none! They were Catholic!
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St. Augustine in the City of God, Book XIX, chapter 27: "And this prayer is efficacious not for those whose faith is “without works and dead,” but for those whose faith “worketh by love.”

Another translation of same passage: “…but only for those whose ‘faith is put into action through love’.”

He joined Galatians 5. 6 with James 2. 7.

Don’t forget, love is greatest, et cetera.

Again, talk with love and faith. Faith needs love. God is love.
 
Also,

Read Matthew 25 and ponder what happend to those who did not perform works?
 
The thing to remember is that if they profess that faith alone is faith that is accompanied by works to prove the faith then it pretty much is the same as Catholic teaching.

They are just squeezing Catholic teaching into a statement like faith alone and proclaiming Catholics wrong, or denying free will.

Like this

We are saved by faith alone, but if you have faith then you will have works and love, but in saying so they either say you are forced to be working in love (meat robot) or you choose to do it (free will)
Or
Faith Alone and if you accept Jesus then it doesn’t matter what you do, a once saved always saved theology. Most believe though that you will lead a Christian life after this and if you don’t you were never saved to begin with.
This is very comfortable, as Catholics are sometimes portrayed as worried of doing enough for their salvation.

Catholic teaching is more like this

We are saved by God’s Grace, through faith working in love.
which means by God’s Grace we are saved we must have faith and live out a loving Christian life, this isn’t forced on us, yet we don’t earn it, it is a gift of God. Our love of God should compel us to please Him.
We don’t live our lives in fear of losing salvation as we just trust in the Lord and His mercy.

Scrupulous people often will have a tendancy to worry too much and then prefer a Faith Alone belief, which some suspect is what happened to Martin Luther.

Study your Catholic faith and feel free to ask questions here, many of us read the Bible often and love to discuss it. The Bible is a Catholic book and is treasured by many on this forum who study it often.

God Bless
Scylla
 
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Schmitty:
I am in a Bible Study with a group of Baptists. In Ephesians 2: 8-10 (you have been saved thru faith, it is not from works).

Their fundamental belief is that if you accept Jesus as your personal savior, you will go to heaven.

They indicate to me that the Catholic Church has Sacraments to follow. That is, I must go to confession to remove my mortal sins else I won’t go to Heaven. We aslo have Catechism or Catholic Tradition to follow, etc. These are what they view as my works?

How do we interpret his Scripture? How can I respond to these Baptists?
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Here is what John Chrysostom says about Ephesians 8

Ver. 8. “For by grace,” saith he “have ye been saved.”

In order then that the greatness of the benefits bestowed may not raise thee too high, observe how he brings thee down: “by grace ye have been saved,” saith he, “Through faith;”

Then, that, on the other hand, our free-will be not impaired, he adds also our part in the work, and yet again cancels it, and adds, “And that not of ourselves.”

Neither is faith, he means, “of ourselves.” Because had He not come, had He not called us, how had we been able to believe? for “how,” saith he, “shall they believe, unless they hear?” (Rom. x: 14.) So that the work of faith itself is not our own.

“It is the gift,” said he, “of God,” it is “not of works.” Was faith then, you will say, enough to save us? No; but God, saith he, hath required this, lest He should save us, barren and without work at all. His expression is, that faith saveth, but it is because God so willeth, that faith saveth. Since, how, tell me, doth faith save, without works? This itself is the gift of God.

John Chrysostom was a fourth century saint. Here is the link to the homily.

St. John Chrysostom Homily 4 On The Epistle To The Ephesians
 
Paul says:
SAVED BY HOPE—For in HOPE we were SAVED. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait with endurance (Romans 8: 24).
 
Paul says:GOSPEL SAVES—For I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: for Jew first, and then Greek (Romans 1: 16).
 
Paul says:
Saved by attending to yourself and teaching, but persevere in both tasks.
I Timothy 4: 16—Attend to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in both tasks, for by doing so you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.
 
Jesus says:
Saved by being baptized and believing.

**St. Mark 16: 16—Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. **
 
Paul says:
Women are saved through motherhood, provided women persever in faith and love and holiness and self-contol.

**Timothy 2: 13—**For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed. 15 But she will be saved through motherhood, provided women persevere in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
 
Jesus says, must persevere to the end to be saved.

But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved (St. Mark 13: 13 and St. Matthew 24: 13.)
 
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