What are "works"?

[Archbishop_10-K]

When we speak of faith and works, what are “works”?

I’d like to see both the Catholic and the Protestant definition.

As most probably know, the worst stereotype against Catholics is that they are redeemed by doing “rituals” and never-ending penance.

And the worst stereotype against Protestants is that as long as you are in intellectual agreement with Jesus’ divinity, you can sin as much as you like.

 

[Dr.Colossus]

My definition of works (at least, good works) would be as follows:

A good work is any action, thought, conversation or prayer which furthers the will of God. By doing these works we open ourselves more fully to His Grace and thereby come closer to salvation.

 

[system]

Going from my gut (and not from a formal theological standpoint), works are good deeds done because of your faith and love for Christ (and missing doing works i.e., not good works, because of defects and sin would add up in the negative column along with missed opportunities) and that we all need to perform good works or we’re just paying God lip service (as a matter of fact, I don’t know the exact wording in confession when being absolved of sin, but “all the good that you do” is one of the phrases).

JELane

 

[John_Henry]

Archbishop 10-K:

When we speak of faith and works, what are “works”?

I’d like to see both the Catholic and the Protestant definition.

Catholic me be: I think of works as those deeds done in obedience to Christ. Faith working through charity (Gal 5:6). And charity is 1 Cor. 13.

 

[The_Barrister]

It is my understanding that “works” refers primarily to the “corporal” and “spiritual” works of mercy.

The corporal works of mercy are:
To feed the hungry;
To give drink to the thirsty;
To clothe the naked;
To harbor the harborless;
To visit the sick;
To ransom the captive;
To bury the dead. The spiritual works of mercy are:
To instruct the ignorant;
To counsel the doubtful;
To admonish sinners;
To bear wrongs patiently;
To forgive offences willingly;
To comfort the afflicted;
To pray for the living and the dead. “Works” also refers to almsgiving, tithing, and meeting one’s obligations to God and man. Together, these show our mercy and love for God and man.

There may be others, as well. But it’s certainly not doing “rituals” and “never-ending penance.”

 

[Matt16_18]

Some works are good, and some works are dead.

Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works …
Heb. 6:1

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works …
Matt. 5:16

What kind of works are you talking about?

 

[II_Paradox_II]

Archbishop 10-K:

When we speak of faith and works, what are “works”?

I’d like to see both the Catholic and the Protestant definition…

In the context of the historical debate between protestants and catholics, the “works” being discussed would be any action besides faith that grants one justifying merit before God (whether sacramental or ethical). This sense of the term doesn’t cover many of the ways we use use it in our language, thus much of the confusion between prots and catholics over the issue of works and faith.

ken

 

[The_Barrister]

II Paradox II:

In the context of the historical debate between protestants and catholics, the “works” being discussed would be any action besides faith that grants one justifying merit before God (whether sacramental or ethical). This sense of the term doesn’t cover many of the ways we use use it in our language, thus much of the confusion between prots and catholics over the issue of works and faith.

ken

Agreed. So I’m curious as to how a Protestant views Jesus’ command to “Take up your cross and follow me.” Many seem to ignore the first part of that command.

 

[II_Paradox_II]

The Barrister:

Agreed. So I’m curious as to how a Protestant views Jesus’ command to “Take up your cross and follow me.” Many seem to ignore the first part of that command.

If they are antinomian, this would be a problem. However, most are not and therefore this verse would be taken in the sense given - one must live a life in consonance with the revealed and general ethical will of God.

As I stated above, this sense of “works” that you are asking about wasn’t the sense debated during the reformation (though many thought it was and continue to to this day).

ken

 

[The_Barrister]

II Paradox II:

If they are antinomian, this would be a problem. However, most are not and therefore this verse would be taken in the sense given - one must live a life in consonance with the revealed and general ethical will of God.

As I stated above, this sense of “works” that you are asking about wasn’t the sense debated during the reformation (though many thought it was and continue to to this day).

ken

I’m not as well versed as I should be re: the historical differences. It is my understanding that being “justified by faith” is believed by Protestants to be sufficient to get into Heaven, something the Bible does not actually say, and which ignores the fact that the Bible teaches us that those who follow in Christ’s footsteps are “*being * saved.” (Jn 3:16-17).

Am I correct in this?

 

[Jadesfire20]

Hi all,

I’ve spent alot of time around evangelicals and I think they often make the mistake of lumping good works together with works of the law or trying to “work” your way into heaven. When Paul condemns “works” in several of his letters if you read carefully he is talking about works of the Jewish law: circumcision, dietary restrictions, etc. I’ve often heard Ephesians 2:8-9 quoted against works (“For by grace you have been saved…”)but most of the time verse 10 is left out which speaks in favor of good works. My sense is that they do believe that good works are important but that it has nothing to do with your salvation.

Peace!:bounce:

 

[RNRobert]

Jadesfire20:

Hi all,

I’ve spent alot of time around evangelicals and I think they often make the mistake of lumping good works together with works of the law or trying to “work” your way into heaven. When Paul condemns “works” in several of his letters if you read carefully he is talking about works of the Jewish law: circumcision, dietary restrictions, etc. I’ve often heard Ephesians 2:8-9 quoted against works (“For by grace you have been saved…”)but most of the time verse 10 is left out which speaks in favor of good works. My sense is that they do believe that good works are important but that it has nothing to do with your salvation.

Peace!:bounce:

St. Paul also said we “should repent and turn to God and perform deeds worthy of [our] repentance.” Acts 26:20:bible1:

 

[II_Paradox_II]

The Barrister:

I’m not as well versed as I should be re: the historical differences. It is my understanding that being “justified by faith” is believed by Protestants to be sufficient to get into Heaven, something the Bible does not actually say, and which ignores the fact that the Bible teaches us that those who follow in Christ’s footsteps are “*being * saved.” (Jn 3:16-17).

Am I correct in this?

You are partially correct. Here are a few thoughts in this regard.

1. To the extent classical protestant theology can be generalized about, while it is true that justification is the primary act of God leading one to heaven, justification is not the sum total of salvation. For instance, one who is justified is also regenerated and sanctified slowly throughout life (this would parallel the “being saved” notion you spoke of).
2. Your point above is logically incomplete because you don’t make the same distinctions we do. For instance, while being justified is a logically sufficient state in order to be allowed into heaven, we would argue that such things as sanctification and regeneration occur at the same time and can only be “ordered” logical sense (i.e… at the point one is justified, they are also regenerate, but the regeneration logically proceeds the justification and faith though chronologically they occur at the same time.). What this all boils down to is that while justification may be a sufficient state it never actually occures on it’s own. Over the course of one’s life these other aspects of salvation come to the fore (sanctification, union with Christ, etc…).
3. If I may suggest a book to you, I would highly suggest getting a copy of Alister McGrath’s “Iustitia Dei”. It is the best historical overview of the doctrine of justification that I have read. It can be quite difficult at times, but it will help you quite a bit in understanding how our various ideas developed.

ken

 

[Charles]

I would define works as something we do. In this sense I would include faith as a “work” since it is also something we do. By lumping all works together I think the phrase “Faith without works is dead” takes on a more profound meaning. Since faith is a work, obviously faith without works would be meaningless!

Granted faith is the action we hear about the most and it holds a special place of honor, but as Tradition has taught us, there are others that are also very important (the Corporal and Spirtitual works mentioned above for example).