What can we conclude from this study, if anything?

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StrawberryJam said:
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2002901053_pray31.html

What does this tell us about prayers? I’m trying not to jump to any conclusions.
There are some words from catholics at the end of the article, what do you think about their thoughts on the study?

This was a bit surprising to me.
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Wow, that is surprising!

I am not much of a pray-er myself (I’m not a big believer in the intercession of saints), but I do attribute some positive effects from prayer (relaxation that can lead to better thinking, attitude, etc., similar to meditation)… so yeah, that is surprising…
 
This is a very interesting study in concept, but seems kind of silly to me. The Catholic answers at the bottom were good in my opinion. Also, we should not test the Lord, our God. I’m sure that those whose time it was to go were chosen before they even got sick.

On the other hand, I can see why SOME people might feel worse if they knew strangers were praying for them. The article listed a couple reasons (preformance anxiety and worst-case prognosis from the doctors). But also, it doesn’t list the religious orientation of the sick. If an athiest knew strangers were praying for him, he might be quite preturbed. Also, if a muslim or a wiccan knew that monks were praying for them, they might feel doomed. In addition, knowing that stangers, not friends or family, were praying for them might make someone feel guilty about being sick and taking up someone elses time that they don’t even know. There are so many possibilities, and combinations of possibilities, that could cause a person to become more stressed when prayed for. I think it would help a faithful person’s heart.

Still, I am a little suprised by the result as well. Prayer can physically heal (I know from personal experience) but not in every case. Prayer can help the sick feel better, mentally and spiritually…but as this study shows, that is not for everyone. However, prayer can also help the one who prays. The one who feels helpless as they watch their loved one suffering, or slowly being taken from this world to the next…and they know they can do nothing. Well, almost nothing! They can pray. It gives them hope, and the comfort that all is in God’s hands…and the knowledge that no matter what happens, God’s plan will be completed. “They will be done” really is the best prayer. It can help the sick as well as the one who prays.
 
StrawberryJam said:
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2002901053_pray31.html

What does this tell us about prayers? I’m trying not to jump to any conclusions.
There are some words from catholics at the end of the article, what do you think about their thoughts on the study?

This was a bit surprising to me.
Click to expand...
There is no need to jump to any conclusions because this is not the actual study.

This is a newspaper article written by Jeremy Manier, Chicago Tribune, which apparently was reprinted in the Seattle Times with a “tabloid headline”. Compared with other news reporting, this is a better than average article regarding details. It even included a critical editorial comment from the American Heart Journal in which this study appeared.

Post 3 above has some very good comments.

What is interesting about this newspaper article is the lack of knowledge about prayer. From the way the article is written, the actual study lacked knowledge of intercessory prayer which could lead to faulty results.

For nearly 20 years, I have been reading newspaper articles on similar studies. Not much has changed one way or another except for today’s statistical power. Unfortunately, God has never been
interviewed. 😉

I definitely agree with Dr. Daniel Sulmasy, which is why, in my humble opinion, conclusions of this study would not be valid. They would be considered someone’s guess. The article’s headline is inflammatory.

Blessings,
granny

Please share these websites with family and friends.
 
First, my bottom line…when you try to measure something in the** metaphysical realm** with or by something in the** physical realm**…you really don’t have a clue what you are doing and what your results mean…(even when your data/facts are scientifically accurate)…God is a mystery…and if we could figure out the “what’s and why’s” of God…He would not be God. The Friar, the priest and the **Doctor of Saint Vincents **Hospital were right on target…amen! This study was a waste of $2.4 million! They could have gotten the answer from Isaiah…for nothing!
]Isaiah 55:8-10 (NIV)
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8 “For** my thoughts are not your thoughts, **
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the LORD.
9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are** my ways higher than your ways**
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Second, the Gospel reading for Mass today was the Healing of the Paralytic (Mark 2:1-12)…notice that** the paralytic exhibited no faith**…no request for help…no prayers and no request for prayers…what moved Jesus was the faith of the four men who brought him to Jesus and took the extraordinary step of lowering him into the house/room through the roof…
**Mark 2: 1-5 (NIV)
****Jesus Heals a Paralytic **
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1A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2So many gathered that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3Some men came, bringing to him a paralytic, carried by four of them. 4Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus and, after digging through it, lowered the mat the paralyzed man was lying on. 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."
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So Jesus takes the four men’s faith in him and does the most important thing for the paralytic…he forgives his sins…and only to prove his point of authority and power…paralytic.

Lastly, so who is to say that God did not do the most important thing for the patients who received prayers and knew, and it still had a complication rate of 59%…versus the 52% complication rate of those who received no prayers and knew it. It appears all of them survived…but maybe the group who received prayers and knew it…would have died with their subsequent complications…but the prayers helped them receive God’s merciful care to still recover…or maybe the prayers caused their complications to be a catalyst for an even deeper conversion to God and deeper faith in God…simply because they had the complication problems. God’s plan for us in this life…is to be sanctified in his grace and to get us into Heaven for eternal union with him in the next life…what ever that takes…working with our cooperative free will…he will do…and I believe that much of the “twists and turns” in our lives is really his Divine Providence…helping us to steer towards him…using our own free will choices.

Pax Christi
 
StrawberryJam said:
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2002901053_pray31.html

What does this tell us about prayers? I’m trying not to jump to any conclusions.
There are some words from catholics at the end of the article, what do you think about their thoughts on the study?

This was a bit surprising to me.
Click to expand...
Oh, sorry everybody. I just posted about the same thing in another thread I’d started today. I guess, for some reason, this is a popular topic this afternoon. 🙂
 
Seeing how some patients actually got worse when they knew they were being prayed for reminded me of a study many years ago. The study was about people that had been in the water several hours keeping themselves afloat, no floatation device. They did okay UNTIL they saw help coming and for whatever reason they gave up too early and drowned just before rescue. The article said that they figured they were going to be saved and relaxed too much with that in mind.

This might be the same with people that KNEW they were being prayed for. Each patient is responsible to a degree for their own recovery. They could have thought to themselves, subconsciously, that they did not have to do anything for their own recovery as it was being taken care of by prayer.
 
StrawberryJam said:
If that article explains anything, it is that it is having to justify it’s articles to fit it’s readership base.

It explained nothing at all.
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96% of the people who weren’t being prayed for by the praying participants of the study were still praying for themselves, as were their friends and families. Therefore, the patients who were in the non-prayed for study group were, in fact, still benefiting from prayer.
 
Faith1960 said:
96% of the people who weren’t being prayed for by the praying participants of the study were still praying for themselves, as were their friends and families. Therefore, the patients who were in the non-prayed for study group were, in fact, still benefiting from prayer.
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I give up.

Please ask yourself if you have been as critical as another poster here who is catholic and felt the numbers in the study that we started off with, were “not enough”

Now, ask yourself why the skepticism?

Apparently, the page you link us to shows your catholic friend to be wrong for thinking that it’s a study deficient in numbers.

Let’s try to think this through.

Someone could be right, both could be wrong.

Give this more thought…

Think about if Intercessory prayer from a Saint in heaven (not here on earth) was praying also.

Again, I will repeat and stand by my post in your thread on the topic.

In the end, I am glad we at least think about these things deeply, you and I. Regardless of how either of us view the data we have to view.🙂
 
The study says nothing about prayer.
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Any “good” doctor knows that if you let a patient think about their death, or in any way hint at it, that the patient might get depressed and depression lowers the bodies immune system and can even make people sick.
If you tell a sick person that people are praying for them, it brings to mind their own mortallity.
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Placebo and nocebo effects play a part.
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Positive or negative reinforcement can help or hinder a patient respectively.
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Those doctors knew that, and if they didn’t they are not good doctors.
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I suspect that they had an agenda against prayer as many academics are either secular or atheistic.
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Answersplease:
I wish you the best

Too bad Chrisitianity Today is not as smart as you are to see through this agenda.

I will link you to it if you wish. You must tell them about your findings.😃
 
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