What causes some but not all to search for Truth?

[Jeanette_L]

I was just thinking about my own spiritual journey, which has led me through the whole realm of Christianity, and knowing that a search for the ultimate Truth was driving me forward, not allowing me to rest or “settle in” somewhere when I wasn’t satisfied with holes that presented themselves in the various Christian Theological Systems behind most denominations and non-denominations today.

My question is, why do you suppose that some are perfectly content with whatever form of Christianity they find themselves in, whether by birth, or by conversion from a non-Christian worldview, and never seem to have that “burden” to search beyond the difficulties they are faced with in today’s Christian Theological environment?

I know a lot of Christians who are very committed to Christ, who live faithful lives to Christ, but don’t seem to have a need or desire to know the complete truth, or to reconcile what they are taught, with what the Scriptures themselves present. What causes this spiritual “comfortableness” in some or most as opposed to a spiritual “restlessness” in others?

Any thoughts, anyone?

 

[5-Decades-a-Day]

Maybe it’s a grace – the restlessness, I mean. He who seeks more, finds more. He who hungers more, is more satisfied.

 

[felra]

Jeanette L:

I know a lot of Christians who are very committed to Christ, who live faithful lives to Christ, but don’t seem to have a need or desire to know the complete truth, or to reconcile what they are taught, with what the Scriptures themselves present. What causes this spiritual “comfortableness” in some or most as opposed to a spiritual “restlessness” in others?

Any thoughts, anyone?

As the previous poster noted, it is ultimately by God’s grace and who completely understands how and why God extends His grace. I suspect that some folks ignore, dismiss, tune out once they have found relative contentment. Perhaps distraction, preoccupation, social/peer influence, lukewarmness,… Perhaps God is preparing them to respond to His invite. A myriad of reasons evident or too sublime or too interwoven for the wonderings of my finite mind.

"Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.” **Matthew 7:78 **

 

[RonWI]

Why do you presume that those people do not believe that they have – in fact – found the truth? I am not suggesting that they have. Not everyone can be right. But you are asking about what is in their mind, their heart.

My experience is that it usually is people from Evangelical churches that talk about being Seekers and “finding” Christ. As for me, I never give myself half that much credit. (Or any credit for that matter.) I did not search. I did not find. The Spirit gave me the truth.

Romans 3:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.

Prior to knowing God, I rejected Him, I did not seek Him out.
Romans 8:6 The mind of sinful mane] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mindf] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

 

[felra]

Why do you presume that those people do not believe that they have – in fact – found the truth? I am not suggesting that they have. Not everyone can be right. But you are asking about what is in their mind, their heart.

My experience is that it usually is people from Evangelical churches that talk about being Seekers and “finding” Christ. As for me, I never give myself half that much credit. (Or any credit for that matter.) I did not search. I did not find. The Spirit gave me the truth.

I took it that the OP was wanting to get some insight into why she was afforded the grace to keep searching for the Truth until her journey lead her home to the RC Church, where the fullness of salvation resides; whereas others appear content short of the journey home to the Catholic Church.

 

[RonWI]

felra:

I took it that the OP was wanting to get some insight into why she was afforded the grace to keep searching for the Truth until her journey lead her home to the RC Church, where the fullness of salvation resides; whereas others appear content short of the journey home to the Catholic Church.

Now that is an interesting question. Why would the Spirit lead others to error?

Let us pick an example for discussion: the Greek Orthodox Church. Some are led to the GOC, but then give up their journey short of the fullness of salvation, so the question goes. Did the Spirit intend to lead these people to the Catholic Church ***via ***the GOC, and the people rejected the Spirit half way along?

It’s an idea, I suppose. Who can know what the Spirit is thinking. But I think we can agree that it is, at a minimum, an inefficient way for the Spirit to work. And one ponders why the Spirit would first lead one through error in order to show him the truth.

An alternative idea is that “the Truth” is not Jesus’ bride, but is Jesus himself. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, the life…” not “my church is the Truth…” This is not to say that the Truth is not in his bride. But it does mean that the two (Jesus and his bride) are not the same.

If this is the case, the Spirit does not lead people to churches, rather, the Spirit leads people to Jesus. Last time I checked, the Word is proclaimed in the GOC.

Now we can agree that there is error in the GOC. But I do not doubt for a second that the Spirit can – and does – lead people to Jesus in the GOC. Since the Spirit uses men (the Word and sacraments are not self-dispensing), he is stuck with imperfect, sinful tools. And I would not except the Catholic Church from this. I am sure that many may ask “why did the Spirit lead me to the Catholic Church…”

 

[Jeanette_L]

felra:

I took it that the OP was wanting to get some insight into why she was afforded the grace to keep searching for the Truth until her journey lead her home to the RC Church, where the fullness of salvation resides; whereas others appear content short of the journey home to the Catholic Church.

I guess that was the point I was trying to make, I just went the long way around to get to it!

It just is puzzling to me that I am surrounded by Christians in my family and circle of friends that have never seemed as concerned about the inconsistancies in all the various denominations, almost as if resigned to the fact that they will always be there. I’m considered to be rocking the boat if I want concrete answers to problem questions concerning biblical interpretations…

That leads me to question why I can’t be content like everyone around me and just kind of go along, you know, the don’t worry, be happy attitude. I have to admit, life would be so much easier if I could be like them.

So of course, when all my poking around led me to the RCC, it was much to my amazement, and a real scandal to everyone in my life. And I am left at this point wondering “WHY”?

And maybe there are no answers really, I just wanted some opinions.

 

[Della]

RonWI:

felra:

Now that is

an interesting question. Why would the Spirit lead others to error?

Let us pick an example for discussion: the Greek Orthodox Church. Some are led to the GOC, but then give up their journey short of the fullness of salvation, so the question goes. Did the Spirit intend to lead these people to the Catholic Church ***via ***the GOC, and the people rejected the Spirit half way along?

I think I am a good example of what you are talking about here. I didn’t come to the RCC via the GOC, as in your example, but I did come to the RCC via the ECUSA after having been a staunch member of the Assemblies of God for about 20 years. So, I’d say that people often are led from one type of Protestant church to another in order to show how they need to get closer to some essential truth they need to understand in order to progress into the fullness of the truth. That’s what happened to me, at any rate.

It’s an idea, I suppose. Who can know what the Spirit is thinking. But I think we can agree that it is, at a minimum, an inefficient way for the Spirit to work. And one ponders why the Spirit would first lead one through error in order to show him the truth.

If the Spirit of God was trying to be efficient rather than helpful he would drop the truth into every heart without the need for preaching or teaching or even reading the Bible. God isn’t necessarily interested in efficiency but in people being brought along at their pace, as they are able to follow him.

An alternative idea is that “the Truth” is not Jesus’ bride, but is Jesus himself

. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, the life…” not “my church is the Truth…” This is not to say that the Truth is not in his bride. But it does mean that the two (Jesus and his bride) are not the same.

On the contrary, the Church is the Body of Christ which is firmly and eternally attached to the Head who runs it in every way, just as your head controls your body. Christ and his Church are one. We clearly see this in the conversion of St. Paul when Jesus says to him, in reference to his persecuting of the Church, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute ME” not “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting my Bride.”

If this is the case, the Spirit does not lead people to churches, rather, the Spirit leads people to Jesus. Last time I checked, the Word is proclaimed in the GOC.

You raise two different issues here. Firstly, God does lead people to churches or there would be no churches. And secondly, the word is proclaimed, to one degree or another, in every Christian body. Some have more of the truth than others do. If this were not the case all of them would teach exactly the same things, which they clearly don’t.

Now we can agree that there is error in the GOC. But I do not doubt for a second that the Spirit can – and does – lead people to Jesus in the GOC. Since the Spirit uses men (the Word and sacraments are not self-dispensing), he is stuck with imperfect, sinful tools. And I would not except the Catholic Church from this. I am sure that many may ask “why did the Spirit lead me to the Catholic Church…”

God leads people to Christ in every Christian body, but that does not mean that every Christian body teaches the fullness of truth nor that there isn’t one that does–the Catholic Church. Really, you need to read more Chesterton.

 

[Jeanette_L]

RonWI:

felra:

Now that is

an interesting question. Why would the Spirit lead others to error?

Let us pick an example for discussion: the Greek Orthodox Church. Some are led to the GOC, but then give up their journey short of the fullness of salvation, so the question goes. Did the Spirit intend to lead these people to the Catholic Church ***via ***the GOC, and the people rejected the Spirit half way along?

It’s an idea, I suppose. Who can know what the Spirit is thinking. But I think we can agree that it is, at a minimum, an inefficient way for the Spirit to work. And one ponders why the Spirit would first lead one through error in order to show him the truth.

An alternative idea is that “the Truth” is not Jesus’ bride, but is Jesus himself. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, the life…” not “my church is the Truth…” This is not to say that the Truth is not in his bride. But it does mean that the two (Jesus and his bride) are not the same.

If this is the case, the Spirit does not lead people to churches, rather, the Spirit leads people to Jesus. Last time I checked, the Word is proclaimed in the GOC.

Now we can agree that there is error in the GOC. But I do not doubt for a second that the Spirit can – and does – lead people to Jesus in the GOC. Since the Spirit uses men (the Word and sacraments are not self-dispensing), he is stuck with imperfect, sinful tools. And I would not except the Catholic Church from this. I am sure that many may ask “why did the Spirit lead me to the Catholic Church…”

I know the Scriptures say that the Word will not return void, so even if someone teaches the Word and doesn’t have complete truth doctrinally, the Word itself containing the power, it will be used by the Holy Spirit to draw men to Himself.

But we still have to wonder why the Holy Spirit would then stop short of getting everyone that’s in the “fold” so to speak, to the ultimate destination of the fullness of truth.

I wonder if the parable about the seed falling on different ground would apply to this discussion also?

 

[homewardangel]

This is a topic that I have often wondered myself. While I realize that it is God’s grace I don’t understand how it seems to be applied so randomly.

That leads me to question why I can’t be content like everyone around me and just kind of go along, you know, the don’t worry, be happy attitude. I have to admit, life would be so much easier if I could be like them.

That is exactly how I feel. I would love to go back to the time in my life before I started wondering so much. (even just for a few days so that I could get a break!!) But I can’t, its like a switch was flipped and everything just changed for me.

As far as God’s grace goes, I would love to understand why it seems to be so random. I used to feel like God’s grace was like the sunshine, some people just have their eyes closed and can not benefit from it. Then in a bible study class someone said that God gives special graces to some and not others and at all different times. That really confused me. Because I don’t understand why my ex couldn’t turn things around. If God could get to me, why did I have to go through this alone? Would God give me some special grace that wasn’t given to my spouse?? Plus, my life changes were not really my decision - it seemed like the only choice I had was to change.

Thoughts??

Terry

 

[Jeanette_L]

homewardangel:

This is a topic that I have often wondered myself. While I realize that it is God’s grace I don’t understand how it seems to be applied so randomly.

That is exactly how I feel. I would love to go back to the time in my life before I started wondering so much. (even just for a few days so that I could get a break!!) But I can’t, its like a switch was flipped and everything just changed for me.

As far as God’s grace goes, I would love to understand why it seems to be so random. I used to feel like God’s grace was like the sunshine, some people just have their eyes closed and can not benefit from it. Then in a bible study class someone said that God gives special graces to some and not others and at all different times. That really confused me. Because I don’t understand why my ex couldn’t turn things around. If God could get to me, why did I have to go through this alone? Would God give me some special grace that wasn’t given to my spouse?? Plus, my life changes were not really my decision - it seemed like the only choice I had was to change.

Thoughts??

Terry

Exactly! Sometimes I get so discouraged and begin to think I must be on the wrong track completely if the Lord is not showing everyone else around me the same things he’s showing me! Of course I don’t stay in that thought too long, but it is very puzzling.

Most of my family think I’m just going through mid-life crisis, and then I start to wonder if I am. But my whole spiritual life has been heading in this direction, it didn’t just start here in mid-life.

So, you’re stuck, once the light goes on, you can’t just turn it off again, it’s there to stay, there’s nothing you can do about it. It’s hardwired, no manual switch to be found!

 

[bekalc]

Who knows? Denominationalisms is a reality now. Maybe said person hasn’t been prompted as much by the Lord as others? That’s a possiblity don’t you think perhaps God feels they are most useful in that other churches???

 

[Jeanette_L]

bekalc:

Who knows? Denominationalisms is a reality now. Maybe said person hasn’t been prompted as much by the Lord as others? That’s a possiblity don’t you think perhaps God feels they are most useful in that other churches???

Yes, you’re right. Everyone needs help where they are to stay on the path. I do know there is an awful lot of church hopping now days, I was guilty of it myself, so I guess the restlessness really is happening more than I thought. A lot of people just hop from one church to another in the same denomination though. They have a little loyalty going on, anyway!

 

[homewardangel]

Most of my family think I’m just going through mid-life crisis, and then I start to wonder if I am. But my whole spiritual life has been heading in this direction, it didn’t just start here in mid-life.

I have wondered if I am just having a mid-life crisis. But there’s no little red sportscar with a blonde (ha ha). If it were just a mid-life crisis I don’t think it would last. In time it would just wear out.

When I started my “journey” at first my family said that it was “divine intervention”. But later they stopped understanding me and what I was feeling and I was told that I was “putting myself on the road to hell”. Now that emotions have calmed down they are a little more accpeting - but not supportive. And dealing with their resistance causes me to hold back on trying to move forward. They make me feel a little ashamed, like I am doing something wrong. I end up doubting myself and that holds me back sometimes.

I know that God is trying to teach me something, I don’t know what. I think I must be fighting him - more than I realize - and that is part of my frustration.

Thanks

 

[Jeanette_L]

homewardangel:

I know that God is trying to teach me something, I don’t know what. I think I must be fighting him - more than I realize - and that is part of my frustration.

Thanks

I think I’m in the same boat as you, and I think that the lesson is that we are supposed to remain strong and faithful and persevere, even if we’re seemingly traveling alone (we’re never really alone, it just seems like it sometimes).

Make sense?

 

[seabird3579]

Jeanette L:

RonWI:

I know the Scriptures say that the Word will not return void, so even if someone teaches the Word and doesn’t have complete truth doctrinally, the Word itself containing the power, it will be used by the Holy Spirit to draw men to Himself.

But we still have to wonder why the Holy Spirit would then stop short of getting everyone that’s in the “fold” so to speak, to the ultimate destination of the fullness of truth.

I wonder if the parable about the seed falling on different ground would apply to this discussion also?

…and don’t forget Free Will.

 

[seabird3579]

As the old saying goes, “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.”

 

[Jeanette_L]

seabird3579:

As the old saying goes, “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.”

I don’t know. I’ve put up an awful fight many times in my life. I felt like Jonah. You get to the point where you know that giving in is gonna make much more sense than holding out! (I can be stubborn, but only to a point). Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

I sound way too ungrateful here, and I don’t mean to. I am now very grateful that the Lord kept pushing me. But, alas, it wasn’t always so.

 

[Mijoy2]

Jeanette L:

My question is, why do you suppose that some are perfectly content with whatever form of Christianity they find themselves in, whether by birth, or by conversion from a non-Christian worldview, and never seem to have that “burden” to search beyond the difficulties they are faced with in today’s Christian Theological environment?

I know a lot of Christians who are very committed to Christ, who live faithful lives to Christ, but don’t seem to have a need or desire to know the complete truth, or to reconcile what they are taught, with what the Scriptures themselves present. What causes this spiritual “comfortableness” in some or most as opposed to a spiritual “restlessness” in others?

Any thoughts, anyone?

This is something I have pondered continuously over the last three years since my own reversion. I hesitate to use the word reversion because it implies I was Catholic at one time when in reality I was nothing more then born to Catholic parents. But hence I relate strongly to the original posters thought.

I wonder what inspires one to delve deeply into the Word of God along with all means of spiritual enlightenment and pursuit of Truth, while others seem quite content with a simple prayer and church life. From a personal perspective I know that if I asked many of my Catholic friends or family members, “what differs us from our Evangelical brothers and sisters”, they’d barely be able
to touch on the subject.

In my personal experience I have found I’ve become hungry to learn as much as I can. All I read are spiritual books (currnetly reading The City of God). I visit these forums and search out Truth to the best of my ability while attempting to maintain an open mind. But why (I ask myself rhetorically)? Is it the Holy Spirit working within me or is the fact that I have a wildly addictive personality. When a drug user I went waaayyy overboard, when a heavy drinker I drank more then everyone else, when I got into fitness and began running I ran a marathon, when I took up fishing I ended up fishing for the biggest fish in the Atlantic Ocean (Giant Bluefin for the fisherman out there). Is this simply my latest addiction and it has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit at all?

What are we called to accomplish in this regard? Are we ultimatley judged by our ability to pursue, absorb and understand complex theological matter? Is there a list of fundementals we MUST get correct? What of individuals who have little desire to pursue theological subject matter and have some of the basics wrong?

A case in point (although Evangelical): While listening to a popular (probably the most popular Evangelical) radio show that caters to questions and answers primarily about the bible ( I kind of feel like Archie Bunker here, “I won’t mention any names I willl just look at the party and whistle”) a caller posed a question about his dear Mother who passed away. His question was (paraphrased); My Mother was a God loving Christian but she was wrong about something fundemental about our faith and I’d like to know if her error was a “fatal error” (“fatal” further defined by in terms of her salvation). Her error was about the divinity of Jesus. Yes, a very fundemental error. Obviously the point of the perfect sacrifice is missed when one harbors such an error. I do not by any means mean to minmize this error, I’m just using it to make a point. I was deeply disturbed by the radio broacasters response. Not because I buy into his theology, more so because of the almost cold casual matter-of-fact manner of which he replied.
He stated that yes indeed her error was grave. He was not at all sensitive and I was worried about how the man was emotionally taking this. Although to my surprise even the man seemed intellectual about the matter and matter-of-fact.

How much of our faith is an intellectual pursuit? We will see threads in these forums hundreds deep discussing, and sometimes not too charitably, the deepest of theological topics. Yet the vast number of Catholics are not even mildly interested in these matters. Why and; to what degree, does it matter?

 

[Jeanette_L]

Mijoy2:

How much of our faith is an intellectual pursuit? We will see threads in these forums hundreds deep discussing, and sometimes not too charitably, the deepest of theological topics. Yet the vast number of Catholics are not even mildly interested in these matters. Why and; to what degree, does it matter?

I am completely on the same page. I have always in my Christian life been either way hot or way cold. There seems to be no middle ground for me. It drives everyone around me insane. So maybe a personality difference has a bit to do with it, but then we have to give credit where credit is due, in that, who created us this way, and was it for a reason that has ultimately led us where we are? (I just finished Essay of the Development of Christian Doctrine by Cardinal Newman and I just started City of God last night, by the way. Haven’t gotten past for Forward yet!)

Anyway, I don’t suppose it is useless, whether by personality defect or otherwise. I mean, if all of us had the attitude that Theology wasn’t of much use, we wouldn’t have the doctrines properly articulated that we rely on in our Faith. On the other hand, if everyone was as preoccupied with Theology as we seem to be, then there would be no Mother Theresa’s around, getting into the nitty gritty of life.

So I guess I’m still back to square one, as far as Christians in general being satisfied or not being pushed forward by the Holy Spirit to answer the questions of “who is right anyway and why”?

Maybe one of us will run across a book that will give us some deeper or more satisfying insight, huh? On your mark, get set, Go!

Happy Reading!

Jeanette