what could I do?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monica4316
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Well I guess itā€™s time to excommunicate Pope Benedict as he attended the Divine Liturgy served by His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew in Constantinople. šŸ˜ƒ
 
ciero said:
Well I guess itā€™s time to excommunicate Pope Benedict as he attended the Divine Liturgy served by His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew in Constantinople. šŸ˜ƒ
Click to expand...
Iā€™m sorry but comments like that donā€™t help my situation. šŸ˜¦ I made it very clear that I was doubting the Papacy. I wasnā€™t attending out of respect or whatever.
 
Monica4316 said:
Iā€™m sorry but comments like that donā€™t help my situation. šŸ˜¦ I made it very clear that I was doubting the Papacy. I wasnā€™t attending out of respect or whatever.
Click to expand...
I better be excommunicated too! šŸ˜ƒ

As I said earlier in this threadā€¦your problem is scruples not that you went to an Orthodox church. Seek spiritual directionā€¦nothing else is required.
 
Monica

For goodness sake - petition for a Canonical Change of enrolment .

Once you are RC in name then you need no longer worry about being EC in an RC Parish .

You will then have an identity - which you so clearly need and want. Once you have that identity you can relax and become at ease instead of this constant conflict from which you suffer.
 
ciero said:
I better be excommunicated too! šŸ˜ƒ

As I said earlier in this threadā€¦your problem is scruples not that you went to an Orthodox church. Seek spiritual directionā€¦nothing else is required.
Click to expand...
You arenā€™t the only one - Iā€™ve been to a few EO Liturgies - so clearly i am due to be excommunicated !
 
Iā€™ve been to some Catholic Masses, and the EO also have a similar canon that applies to praying with non-Orthodox. May I join your Church of excommunicants as well? :cool:
 
Sister Monica,

As stated above, one can only be ā€œexcommunicatedā€ for an act of schism. Going to an Orthodox Church, even when one is doing so because they doubt the Truth of the Roman communion, is not an act of Schism. To go into Schism you would need to do a public act of worship with a non-Catholic body. A public act would be the reception of Baptism or Chrismation. A public action that you do to intentionally place yourself under the authority of another Bishop. Just going to a church is not enough. Especially since you were transferring from Eastern Orthodoxy to Catholicism. How could one reject the Faith in the Roman communion when you didnā€™t have it to begin with?? Maybe I missed something. Either way, the judgment of your Latin priest is correct. If Eastern Canon law differs on this, it is in such a minor way that it is irrelevant. You are not excommunicated, now please stop rejecting Godā€™s mercy and the judgment of your spiritual director. Your scruples over this issue are surely not going pleasing to God. It is the devil trying to sow confusion and discord in your soul to keep you from God. Please, for your own sake, just let go of this and accept your spiritual directorā€™s advice.
 
Monica4316 said:
I posted a while ago here about my Canon Law situation, and about how I worshipped with non Catholics because I was doubting the Papacy, and am concerned thereā€™s a canonical penalty for that. (based on Canon 1365 in Latin Canon Law). Since then, I spoke to a Latin rite priest and was told that although common worship is indeed communicatio in sacris, I donā€™t have a penalty because I didnā€™t know it existed. I also saw the Canon this is based on. However, apparently Iā€™m supposed to follow Eastern Canon Lawā€¦ and I thought maybe theyā€™re the same, cause I found the same canon there (that participation in communicatio in sacris results in a penalty) - but there is no more detail given. I wanted to find out if the Eastern interpretation is the same. I emailed the Eastern Catholic (Ukrainian) chancery, and they said I could ask them the question, and I did, but they havenā€™t gotten back to me yet.

The problem is, - Iā€™m worried that according to Eastern (though not Latin) canon law there is a penaltyā€¦ and I donā€™t know how to go to Confession because what if my Confession would be invalid. I really need the chancery to reply so I could go to Confession. But if they donā€™t reply for a while, Iā€™m not sure what to do.

What would you do in this situation? šŸ¤· should I just go to Confession anyways?

Also, does anyone know, - according to Eastern Canon Law, heresy results in an excommunication, but it says that the person must be first warned by a ā€œlegitimate authorityā€. Iā€™m just curious, - does this refer to a priest, or a bishop? would a lay person be ā€œlegitimate authorityā€?

thank you
Click to expand...

  1. *]Go to confession and confess everything. Get rid of all that baggage that is weighing you down. Put all that stuff behind you and start newā€¦
    *]For clarification re: another post, unless you renounce the Christian faith, you have not committed apostasy
 
The_Idiot said:
Monica

For goodness sake - petition for a Canonical Change of enrolment .

Once you are RC in name then you need no longer worry about being EC in an RC Parish .

You will then have an identity - which you so clearly need and want. Once you have that identity you can relax and become at ease instead of this constant conflict from which you suffer.
Click to expand...
šŸ‘

I second that opinion Monica. Although a canonical transfer isn`t necessary since you are for all intents and purposes Latin Catholic in practice I think in your case this might be a good idea because the Eastern/Western question in what is the correct canons for you to follow, etc. seems to be adding to your scruples and causing you an anxiety that makes true spiritual growth difficult.
Prayers for your peace of mind. May peace be your journey.
 
Vico said:
CIC Can. 1404 The First See is judged by no one.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you could use your knowledge of the canons to assist Monica in realizing she is not excommunicated since you seem to display quite an encyclopedic knowledge of them/
 
Formosus said:
Perhaps you could use your knowledge of the canons to assist Monica in realizing she is not excommunicated since you seem to display quite an encyclopedic knowledge of them/
Click to expand...
She said in post #17 that she is not concerned with excommunication issue but rather a possible penalty for communicatio in sacris.

The book Encyclopedia of Theology by Karl Rahner states that ferendae sententiea is rarely imposed on lay members of the Church. (p. 415.)

books.google.com/books?id=WtnR-6_PlJAC&pg=PA415&dq=ferendae+sententiae+penalty+examples&hl=en&ei=TAOETqzQD47AtgfM5fHhAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
 
The_Idiot said:
Monica

For goodness sake - petition for a Canonical Change of enrolment .

Once you are RC in name then you need no longer worry about being EC in an RC Parish .

You will then have an identity - which you so clearly need and want. Once you have that identity you can relax and become at ease instead of this constant conflict from which you suffer.
Click to expand...
How would one go about doing that? I donā€™t even knowā€¦ šŸ˜¦ My bishop is the local Latin rite bishop. Russian Catholics donā€™t have their own Bishop. I know in Canonical transfer the person needs to apply to both Bishops: Latin and Easternā€¦ but I only have one, lol.
Formosus said:
Sister Monica,

As stated above, one can only be ā€œexcommunicatedā€ for an act of schism.
Click to expand...
I am not referring to the canon on excommunicationā€¦ but Canon 1365 (in Latin Canon Law, and there is one in Eastern Canon Law as well) regarding a ā€œjust penaltyā€ for communicatio in sacris. Not excommunication. šŸ™‚
Going to an Orthodox Church, even when one is doing so because they doubt the Truth of the Roman communion, is not an act of Schism. To go into Schism you would need to do a public act of worship with a non-Catholic body. A public act would be the reception of Baptism or Chrismation. A public action that you do to intentionally place yourself under the authority of another Bishop. Just going to a church is not enough. Especially since you were transferring from Eastern Orthodoxy to Catholicism. How could one reject the Faith in the Roman communion when you didnā€™t have it to begin with?? Maybe I missed something. Either way, the judgment of your Latin priest is correct. If Eastern Canon law differs on this, it is in such a minor way that it is irrelevant. You are not excommunicated, now please stop rejecting Godā€™s mercy and the judgment of your spiritual director. Your scruples over this issue are surely not going pleasing to God. It is the devil trying to sow confusion and discord in your soul to keep you from God. Please, for your own sake, just let go of this and accept your spiritual directorā€™s advice.
Click to expand...
My spiritual director in fact said that common worship is communicatio in sacris. He said I donā€™t have a penalty because I didnā€™t know the penalty existed. Iā€™m trying to make sure that the Eastern understanding is the same.

I wasnā€™t transfering to Catholicism at the timeā€¦ I was already Catholic.
steve_b said:

  1. *]Go to confession and confess everything. Get rid of all that baggage that is weighing you down. Put all that stuff behind you and start newā€¦
    *]For clarification re: another post, unless you renounce the Christian faith, you have not committed apostasy
Click to expand...

  1. I donā€™t mean apostasy or schism or heresyā€¦ but communicatio in sacris, which is something else. But I definitely should go to Confession. šŸ™‚

    God bless
 
See post 34, I added a reference.

To transfer, being a Russian Catholic in the care of the Latin Church sui iuris, simply write a letter to the Latin Bishop that is your proper ordinary and give your reasons. If approved you will be sent a protocol that must be signed by yourself, and witnessed by two others. You will need to provide copies of your sacramental records (baptism, Chrismation, Matrimony) because the Church must update their records.
 
Because she was received into Catholicism from Orthodoxy, the only update required is in the metrical registers of the parish at which she was received.

Monica, the Latin bishop has the authority to both release you from canonical enrollment in the Russian Greek-Catholic Church and accept you into canonical enrollment to the Latin Church.
 
Vico said:
See post 34, I added a reference.

To transfer, being a Russian Catholic in the care of the Latin Church sui iuris, simply write a letter to the Latin Bishop that is your proper ordinary and give your reasons. If approved you will be sent a protocol that must be signed by yourself, and witnessed by two others. You will need to provide copies of your sacramental records (baptism, Chrismation, Matrimony) because the Church must update their records.
Click to expand...
Diakonia said:
Because she was received into Catholicism from Orthodoxy, the only update required is in the metrical registers of the parish at which she was received.

Monica, the Latin bishop has the authority to both release you from canonical enrollment in the Russian Greek-Catholic Church and accept you into canonical enrollment to the Latin Church.
Click to expand...
thanks for the information! šŸ™‚
 
Thank you to all who participated in this discussion. As the question asked has been answered, this thread is now closed.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
Eastern Catholicism Moderator
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top